I have not heard of such a practise by New England Extension Services.
DS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu
[mailto:owner-sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Roberto Verzola
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 2:05 AM
To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com
Subject: Re: a place for RoundUp in a sustainable farm?
Alex,
I'm quoting your message entirely so it gets posted on SANET too.
At what scale of operation, roughly, would you say herbicide use
becomes really necessary? (Perhaps one comment might be such scale of
farming isn't itself ecologically sustainable anymore...)
If herbicides are toxic to human, to soil life and presumably other
animals, they obviously don't fit the ecological sustainability
criterion. However, they might fit - by your description - the
financial viability criterion (for which some people use the word
"sustainability" too) although they do it by passing on certain costs
to others (ie, externalizing them).
I also find interesting your note that MOST extension programs require
the use of Roundup to participate. I wonder if others can confirm that
this is truly the case, as I find it an amazing example of the biased
context under which organic farmers work, which subsidizes
anti-ecological farming but makes life very difficult for organic
farmers. I wonder what is the ratio (say in dollar terms) of extension
programs that require Roundup to programs that require organic
methods? Any idea?
Roberto
Alex wrote:
>If you don't mind me jumping in here, maybe I can explain about most
>herbicide use.
>
>First, I neither use nor condone the use of pesticides (pesticides
>being inclusive of insect... and herb...). For two reasons- One, they
>are toxic to humans. Two, they are toxic to soil life. (It depends
>on your perspective which of these is the most important.)
>
>Now, to the use of herbicides. It mostly has to do with scale. The
>bigger the farming operation, the less able we are to manage weed
>pressure through the techniques you describe. Herbicides make it
>possible for few people to farm large tracts. And the introduction of
>no-till has definitely increased the sales of Roundup. Also, most
>extension programs (i.e. pasture renovation) require the use of
>Roundup to participate.
>
>So, it all has to do with scale- of farms and mass marketing. But,
>there are exceptions. NRCS put out a video with Raymond Burr
>narrating in which a farmer said he could buy all new mechanical weed
>control equipment every year and still save money over his former
>herbicide cost. But there's still the balance of fuel and passes over
>a field versus the impact of the manufacture of herbicides and their
>impact on the soil life and environment. Sadly we have no research on
>these impacts- we ignore this.
>
>So, a farm can be said to be sustainable through the use of
>herbicides. All we have to do is ignore their impact living
>creatures. And it depends on one's definition of sustainable. Might
>I remind us all that every pesticide has been deemed "safe" when it
>was introduced. It is only after we see their incredible impact that
>we realize what we're doing. I am remembering the impact of DDT on
>birds and the link to breast cancer. And now Dursban...
>
>Alex McGregor
>Walden Farm
>
>Roberto Verzola wrote:
> I find it difficult to understand how herbicides like RoundUp can be
> part of a sustainable farm. Maybe you can explain...
>
> There seem to be enough cultural practices for weed control that makes
> herbicide applications unnecessary.
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