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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bluestem Associates" <bluestem@webserf.net>
To: <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 5:57 PM
Subject: Organics have more nutrients
> On 04 May 00 03:15:13, Roberto Verzola wrote:
>
> >I presume that by "conventional" farmer, you mean one that regularly
> >uses chemical fertilizers and pesticides. If you said "more quantity",
> >I can understand (at least for a while, they can). But I wonder how
> >their produce can be of better quality than those who don't use
> >chemicals.
>
> Very simple.
>
> DEFINITION: "conventional" grower --- one who uses *materials*
> prohibited by organic certification programs (since by that criterion
> alone (s)he can be denied certification).
>
> 1) There is nothing that prohibits a conventional grower from using
> some or all of the techniques commonly attributed to (but rarely
> employed by) "organic" farmers. Such as good rotations, green manures,
> compost, refugia for beneficial insects, etc, etc.
>
> 2) There is nothing that prohibits a conventional grower from using
> some or all of the slowly available mineral nutrients commonly
> attributed to (but rarely employed in) "organic" production. Such as
> rock phosphate, sul-po-mag, gypsum, etc. etc.
>
> 3) Combine 1 and 2 with judicious use of carefully selected chemical
> fertilisers (such as ammonium sulphate, mono-ammonium phosphate,
> potassium chloride and micronutrients) along with judicious use of
> carefully selected chemical pesticides (such as Imidan, Roundup, and
> assorted fungicides).
>
> I would say that with such a system the conventional grower will
> harvest a better *quality* product than the vast majority of organic
> growers who, in their stubborn infatuation with materials issues, may
> get it right about not using "chemicals" but generally miss the boat on
> soil building, mineral nutrients, organic matter management, nitrogen
> fixation, understanding the weed community .... and on and on.
I would say your are wrong wrong worng IMHO u don't know understand organic
because u miss the point. don't tell folks they can do both because it do't
work. u can have a little more good rotations, green manures,
> compost, refugia for beneficial insects, etc, etc. when u add the chemical
> fertilisers (such as ammonium sulphate, mono-ammonium phosphate,
> potassium chloride and micronutrients) along with judicious use of
> carefully selected chemical pesticides (such as Imidan, Roundup, and
> assorted fungicides). u just work against yourself. you fight your own
self . true organic is about balance .. u can do both but I don't see it
working. u are a organic inspector. oh brother. I would hate to have u
as my inspector . u just don't get it when u are cheating your cheating
yourself. u may think oh I will just kill the gopher with a little poison
then u kill a few gophers but u also kill the barn owl and kill the snake
and kill the hawk etc. till you only have gopher and are on the poison
treadmill. u think u are taking the easy way out by doing both organic and
conventional but your working twice as hard. conventional growers feed the
plants and kill all the bugs organic growers feed the soil etc/and the bugs.
It is two different ways of farming and if you do both you work twice as
hard and it will not work. I know you will say prove it well I don't care
what u think I think u are dead wrong about organic growing and the growers
. I don't think you have an understanding of organic and you will be
fighting your own self. I disagree with you a lot bluestem and feel with
all your bad mouthing of organic growers you just don't get it. I would
hate to have u for my inspector but anyone can be an dam inspector even
someone that hates organic growers and we can't do shit about it. . I have
had conventional farmers inspected me for the extra money what a ass coming
over to inspect me while he uses chemicals and they are always a pain in the
nick. that's the problem u get a bunch of power hungry folks that don't
like organic growers and bad mouth them and u give those folks power over
our lifes and for what . I don't think you know what organic is .
telling folks they can do both. u just don't get it. u think u know and u
push you trip on everyone but I don't think u know organic but what u say
about organic growers and organic growing.
> If most organic growers would do what the industry publicity likes to
> say they do (but too often don't), we wouldn't be having this
> discussion. Conventional produce farmers are starting to figure this
> one out, and if the organic people don't get their $#|^ together pretty
> soon, they're going to wake up one spring and wonder where their
> customers went.
>
> Bart Hall
>
>
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