<A.LEE> ------Original Message------
<A.LEE> From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" <goodearth@rockbridge.net>
<A.LEE> To: sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu
<A.LEE> Sent: April 19, 2000 1:22:34 AM GMT
<A.LEE> Subject: permaculture or micro-farming?
<A.LEE> > <Lion Kuntz replies to Cardoso and Hemenway>----
<A.LEE> > To Cardoso:
<A.LEE> > Your website pages are insuficient to determine the throughput
<A.LEE> > of your system. One cannot find details of costs versus
<A.LEE> > productivity figures,
<A.LEE> > so one cannot evaluate the competiveness of this aquaculture
<A.LEE> > IBS with other
<A.LEE> > forms of greenhouse/outdoor aquaculture.
<A.LEE> Once again you've gone on the offensive without first reading
<A.LEE> what others have posted to you. I found Mr. Cardoso's
<A.LEE> webpage informative, exciting, inviting and very clear. The most
<A.LEE> important part of his web page, I think,
<A.LEE> is his address and telephone number, in bold letters, on all the
<A.LEE> pages. It was very easy to pick up the phone and contact him
<A.LEE> directly, which I did, and was rewarded with a very nice
<A.LEE> conversation from a man who is passionately devoted to his work,
<A.LEE> and very willing to share his knowledge. I feel you have done him
<A.LEE> a disservice with your incivility. Please be courteous enough
<A.LEE> to listen to what others are saying before you bash them
<A.LEE> over the head.
I stated dry opinion. I could not find the figures on the webpages, and I read every one of them. I
could not find costs figures which could be correlated with production figures. Evidently, tilapia
are the main salable product, the remainder of aquatic plants being consumed internally in the
systems. How many tilapia could I expect to raise from an investment of that size, so I could
evaluate if I wanted to divert my investments in that direction rather than some other tilapia
cultivation direction?
There is no evidence I was incivil. I merely stated that the information which would be useful to me
was not there on the website address he provided. You have made very pointed demands upon me to
provide similar detailed information. Would it be considered incivil for me or you to make such
requests? Would the overall tone of the whole communication be considered as to whether a "request"
or "demand" was "incivil? Would a history of communications establish a pattern of hostility? I have
no pattern of communications with this person or business. He posted an advertisement in a public
place, and I made a statement in the same public place which might be interpreted that there ought
to be more information publically available.
If I inadvertantly hurt his feelings by making this request in the form of a statement rather than
as a set of detailed questions, I hereby sincerely apologize to Mr. Cardoso, and promise not to make
that request or any similar statements in the future.
His publication was joined in a communication where a "Permaculture(tm)" fan seemed to be trying to
establish moral superiority to commercial aquaculture integrated biological systems, and I took
offense at that tone and replied appropriately (according to my moral beliefs). Some of the tone
addressed to the sniper may have inadvertantly appeared to be addressed towards Mr. Cardoso, and I
also apologize if that happened. I have no animousity, nor feelings of incivility towards what
appears to be a working Integrated Biological System competing in the markeplace of ideas. I do not
regret my remarks addressed to the sarcastic writer who happened to be placed on the same page as
Mr. Cardoso.
The record of the archives will show who drew first blood. Writers who start with incivility might
receive reproach or reprimand, if it appears that it might be helpful in staving off future
occurrences. Chronically incivil people ultimately lose their audience, so it is a self-correcting
problem.
Sincerely, Lion Kuntz
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