>From: Jacky Foo <email@example.com>
>To: 'sanet-mg List' <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Sent: April 18, 2000 6:19:06 AM GMT
>Subject: FW: [IBS-GEN] micro-farming
>DIGEST OF MESSAGES from Forum on Integrated Bio-Systems
>1) From: Ludwig Naegel [email@example.com]
>2) From: Elfpermacl@aol.com
>1) -----Original Message-----
>From: Ludwig Naegel [firstname.lastname@example.org]
<Naegal> I have been following with some interest the exchange of opinions and ideas
<Naegal> on microfarming. Happy Filipinos with a couple of square meters of land and
<Naegal> a lot of unused rice straw to grow mushrooms and hundreds of rabbits.
<Naegal> No, the question of IBS is not so easy! Education level of the small-scale
<Naegal> farmer and market forces are the decisive parameters for success! In the
<Naegal> Philippines the demand for mushrooms and for rabbit meat is very limited!
<Naegal> How to obtain in the Philippines for a reasonable price the from Taiwan
<Naegal> imported mushroom spores? Where can you sell your fresh mushrooms? It is
<Naegal> true that rabbits are reproducing rapidly, but where can you sell the meat
<Naegal> in a country where chicken meat is preferred? Additionally, the growing of
<Naegal> mushrooms and rabbits needs experience and training, especially in the area
<Naegal> of disease prevention and control.
<Naegal> IBS is not an easy area - especially for "developing countries"!
<Naegal> Ludwig Naegel
<Naegal> Apdo. Postal 472 Correo Central LA PAZ, B.C.S. 23000 Mexico
<Lion Kuntz replies to Naegal>----------------------------
Here are webpages which refute Naegal's statements:
"© The United Nations University 1979"
"The recent expansion of the commercial production of this tropical mushroom
in the Philippines is the result of several complementary factors: (1) there
is technology available and the climate is favourable to good mushroom
production throughout the year; (2) there is plenty of manpower available,
ample space, and abundant bedding material; (3) there is high demand for the
product both locally and abroad; and (4) financial assistance can be extended
by government and private lending institutions."
Naegal spent his time disparaging Phillippino self-help efforts which are
(1) easy to learn, (2) cheap to impliment, (3) have an established cultural
taste and market acceptance, and (4) convert waste to valuable products.
Naegal has made no effort to educate himself, but uses his time destructively
to discourage, rather than constructively to encourage. Naegle owes an
explanation for this aberrant behavior.
Marc Cardoso at EgoGenics [email@example.com] wrote:
<Cardoso> My organisation, ECOGENICS, has taken
<Cardoso> the concept of the micro-farm to a very dynamic level. ............(cut).....
<Cardoso> The Ecogenics closed loop ecosystems
<Cardoso> maximise the per square ft profitability by growing high ticket products
<Cardoso> such as blue green algae in a symbiotic relationship with Tilapia fish as a
<Cardoso> result of that self sustaining combination it is then possible to grow high
<Cardoso> value crops hydroponically or as it is now referred to, aquaponically.
<Cardoso> We also have made it possible to operate over a wide range of
<Cardoso> climatic zones and have replicated this system successfully in areas as
<Cardoso> diverse as northern New York, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, georgia, Texas, New
<Cardoso> Mexico, Oregon ,Ghana, and CostaRica. the average profit potential of these
<Cardoso> systems is anywhere from $35,000.00 per year to $150,000.00 per year....(cut)
<Cardoso> We expect that within the next couple of
<Cardoso> years there will be 150 systems operational across the U.S.A.and the world.
Hemenway replied (sarcastically)
<Hemenway> We have been doing things like this for 25 years or more and calling it
<Hemenway> permaculture. It is an international movement active on every continent and
<Hemenway> doesn't need a ceo. Like the rest of any ecosystem, it is decentralized.
<Hemenway> Dan Hemenway
<Hemenway> Barking Frogs Permaculture Center
<Hemenway> Sparr, Florida, USA
<Lion Kuntz replies to Cardoso and Hemenway>------------------------------
Your website pages are insuficient to determine the throughput
of your system. One cannot find details of costs versus productivity figures,
so one cannot evaluate the competiveness of this aquaculture IBS with other
forms of greenhouse/outdoor aquaculture.
There are no "official" Permaculture(tm) Integrated Biological Systems, but only
suggestions based on design principles which do not in fact describe any
profitable marketable crop system. Permaculture is not "agriculture" even if the
name implies "permanent agriculture". Permaculture is most noted as being a
system designed to sell very-high-priced seminars on how to permaculture. Each
owner of a permaculture course graduatation certificate becomes a new sales
pitchman for permaculture without necessarily ever having sold one tomato ever
to anyone. Agriculture is more than private home subsistance gardening. Agriculture
is the feeding of the population who is not farmer/gardeners. Permaculture has made
no contributions to agriculture which did not already previously exist in the public
domain, and which already public property did not require expensive seminars or a
cutesy name to use.
Signed by Lion Kuntz
LionKuntz@aol.com, LionKuntz@email.com, LionKuntz@yahoo.com
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