Hi wytze,
I read a good few other messages from you more recent than this one and I am
glad we all seem to be coming out of the woods in one piece.
Although I would be one of the first to recognize the failings of our
reductionist science establishment there are some fundamental natural laws
that look as if they are going to old firm for an other little while.
A holistic view of nature does not require a belief in alchemy and chemical
transmutations. Transmutations do take place in nuclear reactions. Or better
transmutations are nuclear reactions.
I' m very much against GM , not because they use too much science but
because they use too little. If anything in this day and age resembles
medieval alchemy it is no doubt Genetical Engineering. The G engineers have
no more of a clue than anybody else about the underlying scientific
principles of what they are doing. The end result roughly works somewhat and
that is the key to the gold.
For baking real bread that can be sliced you need higher temperatures than
45 C. I suppose we bake at about 175 C.
All the best
John
----- Original Message -----
From: wytze <geno@zap.a2000.nl>
To: John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
Cc: sanet <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>; Douglas Hinds <dmhinds@acnet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Fw:higher nutrient levels in organic food
> Hi John and all,
> John is correct concerning the transmutation. I made a mistake to use the
word
> alchemy.
> What exactly causes the increase of minerals is not clear to me either.
> Unfortunately I do not have any further details on the tests so I do not
know to
> which extend the water may be the source of the increase. This is all to
be
> looked into deeper. I did dig up some more figures, which confirm the
French
> research and also give figures for other minerals.
> I have an analysis of a German laboratory of sprouted wheat (I think 3-4
days).
> I also looked up the figures from the USDA FNIC on wheatgrains, which give
the
> data of 6 different wheats (hard red spring, hard red winter, soft red
winter,
> hard white, soft white and Durum wheat). Below I give the range of the
first
> five. (Durum is slightly different for some minerals)
> The figures are all averages from a varied amount of samples and concern
mg per
> 100gr.
>
>
> Calcium
> whole grains 25-34 69
> sprouted 69
>
> Iron
> wg. 3-5
> s. 8
> Magnesium
> wg 90-126
> s. 250
> Phosphorus
> wg 288-493
> s.1100
> Potassium
> wg. 340-435
> s. 837
> Sodium
> wg 2
> s. 5
> Zinc
> wg. 2-3.4
> s. 12
> Copper
> wg 0.4
> s. 0.9
> Manganese
> wg 3-4
> s. 9
>
> I also found a few figures on (dehydrated) wheatgrass:
> Calcium: 515 mg/100gr.
> Iron: 57.1
> Magnesium 197.5
> Potassium 1.425
> Of course, the increase here could come from the soil on which the grass
was
> grown.
>
> I was fascinated to see the description of the "Stone Age Bread". It
sounds
> pretty much like what I have come to know as "Essene Bread" with the
difference
> that for the latter no beansprouts are used. What temperature do you use
to
> heat? Essenebread is made with temperatures not higher than 40-45 degrees
> Celsius. (so all enzymes stay alive). Flavor is added by herbs and spices
like
> cumin, coreander and others.
> regards
> wytze
>
>
> John D'hondt wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I still have never seen any indication in the world around me that
chemical
> > transmutation ever takes place.
> > The figures about Ca, Mg and P you give Wytze do not at first sight look
as
> > if a stoichiometric transmutation is taking place from Mg and P into Ca.
Was
> > this experiment done in a closed system? To make grain germinate you
need to
> > had water to the dry seeds. Was this water tested for mineral content?
Or
> > was the increased Ca content due to take up from this source? Was the
> > remaining water tested? Did the Mg and P that disappeared leak out in
this?
> > I have no problems with increasing carotene levels after germination of
> > rice. But that is something different. Carotene is an organic molecule
in
> > the chemical sense) and can be synthesized by the plant from airborne
CO2.
> > I have not tried sprouting rice so far, but from personal experience
with
> > other sprouted cereals I think the result could be rather palatable and
> > nutritious indeed. We make a certain bread here that we call "Stone age
> > bread". We let a mixture of cereals germinate ( and we had sunflower,
mung
> > beans, or any other bean, peas, buckwheat or whatever other sprouts as
well
> > at times ). When the sprouting is well advanced, most of the germination
> > water gone and the sprouts reasonably dry, we put the lot through the
meat
> > miner. Had a little sea salt and work into pot fitting shape. Pop pot
in
> > oven at not too high a temperature and forget about it for a good few
hours.
> > It turns into a sweat, chestnut brown loaf. A little bit crumbly but not
at
> > all bad.
> > One warning : I forbid anyone reading this and trying it out to even
think
> > of taking a patent on the recipe.
> >
> > John
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: wytze <geno@zap.a2000.nl>
> > To: Douglas Hinds <dmhinds@acnet.net>
> > Cc: John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>; sanet <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fw:higher nutrient levels in organic food
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Douglas, I fully share your remarks on gmo's, patents and cerfain
> > > developments in agriculture and society.
> > > As promised, some data on mineralchange in sprouting seeds. Source is
a
> > > French book: "Decouvrez les graines germees" (discover sprouted
grains)
> > > from 1983 by M. Cayla.
> > > He gives for wheat the following figures:
> > > Phosphorus:
> > > Magnesium Calcium
> > > whole grain 423mg%
> > > 133mg% 45mg%
> > > sprouted grain 1050mg% 342mg%
> > > 71mg%
> > >
> > > In oats he found an augmentation of Calcium of 300-350%
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, most of the sprout-research has focused on vitamins and
> > > amino acids.
> > > One interesting figure concerns provit A in rice Carotene in rice
> > > increases from 0,3mg in unsprouted rice to 4mg/100g in seedlings of
seven
> > > days. (I do not know how riceseedlings taste and whether they are used
as
> > > food anywhere.)
> > > I will dive further into the mineral issue and see what has happened
since
> > > the eighties in research. Anyway I agree that more research is needed.
> > > wytze
> > >
> > >
> > > Douglas Hinds wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi wytze,
> > > >
> > > > Monday, April 10, 2000, 12:47:56 PM, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > > w> Hi John, Douglas,
> > > >
> > > > w> ... Douglas' remark on the richer soils and healthier soils makes
> > > > w> sense to me but is the increase in minerals than caused by the
> > > > w> combination of compost and soil micro organisms?
> > > >
> > > > Well, you need the compost / humus to help breed the micro-organisms
> > > > which help make minerals accessible, but above all I would stress
the
> > > > need for further research regarding these natural, symbiotic
> > > > processes. This of course requires funding. Speaking of funding:
> > > >
> > > > In terms of my social conscience, I am offended the vast, wasteful,
> > > > expensive and totally needless campaign to cash in on (develop,
market
> > > > and thus exploit) unique, patentable recombinant organisms designed
> > > > first and foremost to benefit their developers and pushers, who are
> > > > little better than criminals in my book.
> > > >
> > > > Evidently we find ourselves in the midst of a struggle where the
> > > > natural world is being trashed (both psychologically and physically)
> > > > as unfit, just so others can substitute processes that took millions
> > > > of years to develop with others (*"theirs"*) that have more
potential
> > > > to lower the quality of life as we (and all those that preceded us)
> > > > know it than to fulfill the greenback backed hype that's being
spewed
> > > > out in the media.
> > > >
> > > > And this is happening even before the natural process that gave rise
> > > > to life itself are fully understood.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe I should go back to the states and run for president.
> > > >
> > > > Or just urge that more research be done on biological systems, while
a
> > > > moratorium is implemented on the further release of GMOs in
> > > > agriculture.
> > > >
> > > > Douglas
> > >
> > >
>
>
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