--The Mighty Oak was once a little nut that held its ground.
<Ban-GEF@lists.greenbuilder.com>, <orGANicgrowing@egroups.com>
Subject: [organicgrowing] Re: B-GE: Organic?Avery's claims
Date: Sun, Feb 20, 2000, 4:59 PM
Here's a little about organic farming. I hope it helps. My wife and I grew
on one acre of land, 12 4X4 square foot plots of corn and vegetables. We
grew enough to feed ourselves and put up enough corn for the rest of the
year. To that we added fish we caught ourselves and fresh eggs from range
fed chickens in the local community along with other vegetables and fruits
grown by other organic farmers. Our costs for food, we computed was one
quarter the cost of not growing the food ourselves. It all tasted delicious
and our studies indicated it was healthy food.
Again, I hope this helps. I would like to add at this point, If you grow at
least one quarter of your food, you can cut your grocery bill in half.
Fresh food decreases the desire for lots of food. You feel full and well fed
eating an ear of your own corn.
as once a little nut that held its ground.
> ----------
> >From: <kandmhfarm@sprintmail.com>
> >To: <sanet-mg@cals.ncsu.edu>
> >Subject: Can you post this on SANET?
> >Date: Sat, Feb 19, 2000, 2:05 PM
> >
> > Can this be posted on SANET? Thank you.
> >
> > Friends -
> >
> > After seeing Dennis Avery speak on 20/20, on the videotaped speech that
> > he made at to the PA Corn and Soybean Growers Association at Penn State
> > on Feb. 8, and after reading a 14 page statement handed out at this
> > second talk, I feel that the organic community must address this attack
> > in the context that while Dennis Avery may be at this point the current
> > appointed spokesperson of the chemical/biotech/agribusiness community's
> > attack on alternative agriculture, we must be able and prepared to
> > confront this as a larger and more complex issue.
> >
> > To borrow a phrase from Avery, I fear that we in the organic community
> > are asking the wrong question when it comes to Avery's attack on organic
> > food. We need to ask what are the questions that consumers are likely
to
> > be asking when they hear or read his rhetoric. I honestly do not think
> > that they are asking "Where is that ugly guy getting his funding?". I
> > think it is more likely that they are asking "Well, how much truth is
> > there in what he is saying? Is organic food safe to feed to my
children?
> > Are pesticide residues worth worrying about in food? Are organic
> > farmers really sloppy and unproductive?"
> >
> > For this reason, I feel that the organic community must respond not by
> > merely saying "of course he is a liar" but instead by presenting
> > convincing and coherent data and information to show that he is.
> >
> > As a frequent contributor to Acres USA, as an organic farmer, and as a
> > scientist, I would be interested in preparing an explanation that could
> > help everyone in the organic community understand and explain the
> > fallacies in Avery's 'logic' - if I could get some help assembling the
> > necessary information. I am very frustrated by Avery's false and
> > distorted claims that contain just enough grains of truth to be
> > convincing to people to either do not have enough of as agricultural or
> > scientific background to evaluate the information accurately or who do
> > not bother to listen clearly. But I know that I do not have enough
> > information or expertise to fully explain why his claims are lies. Can
> > you help me find answers to the following questions? If you know where
I
> > can find this information or if you have informed constructive opinions
> > or information you would like to contribute (you will be credited if you
> > wish), please respond as soon as possible. If you would like to
> > collaborate with me with this project, let me know! Its a big one, the
> > more hands and minds the better! Each one of us may have a piece of
what
> > is needed, but we must bring it all together now.
> >
> > 1. Have there been recent studies that have compiled yield from a fairly
> > large number of commercial-scale organic farms and compared it side by
> > side with yield from similar conventional farms for major agricultural
> > crops? We can say that there is no yield reduction in organic farming,
> > but until we have data to prove this, our assertions are
unsubstantiated.
> >
> >
> > 2. Have there been side by side tests, done by an independent third
party
> > testing lab, of organic and conventional produce that show that there is
> > no difference in bacteriological contamination? Again - we can point to
> > the stringency of organic standards, how only composted manure is
> > permitted on certified organic farms etc, but until we have independent
> > data proving that organic produce, purchased in similar markets, is not
> > more contaminated, our claims are unsupported.
> >
> > 3. The 1948 study done at Rutgers Univ showing that organic produce has
a
> > higher nutritional content, particularly in trace elements, is certainly
> > a useful and interesting study - but has it been followed up more
> > recently with more sophisticated, modern testing techniques? Certainly
> > it would be reasonable to assume that the differences in nutritional
> > content may indeed be even greater today, with changes in conventional
> > agriculture. I have recently seen reference to another more recent
study
> > by the British Soil Association. Can someone help me find more detail on
> > this second study, and any others on this topic. If there isn't a good
> > comprehensive recent study on mineral, vitamin and secondary metabolite
> > content of organic vs. conventional food, this is one area of research
> > that should be repeated by an independent, third party lab as soon as
> > possible.
> > Certainly the style of organic production would make a difference -
> > whether intensive input substitution, organic by neglect, or carefully
> > planned organic systems approach - but there probably is just as much
> > variation in commercial produce too depending on cultural methods. This
> > variable should be definitely evaluated, but for right now, can we get
> > any general information comparing nutritional value of organic (as a
> > representative group) to conventional (as a representative group).
> >
> > 4. I have seen references in consumers publications recently about
> > pesticide residues on various types of conventional produce. Could
> > someone help me find more quantitative detail on this information - what
> > pesticides were detected, at what levels, what was the country of origin
> > on the produce tested etc? Can someone help me find hard information
on
> > the application of raw manure, raw sewage or sewage sludge onto produce
> > grown in other countries that is then exported to the US - we all hear
> > 'oh it is being done' - but where, at what rate, how long before harvest
> > etc.? I have also read some references by Charles Benbrook citing
> > Consumer Union studies that showed pesticide residue in produce that had
> > been actually labeled organic. Has there been any follow up on this?
> >
> > 5. Avery and his kind are trying hard to prove that cancer has never
> > been linked to pesticide exposure. Of course the causes of most kinds
of
> > cancer are hard to prove. However, would it be possible for selected
> > reputable scientists to help us prepare a succinct summary of what has
> > actually been proven about this subject - either with laboratory animals
> > or with human exposure. The World Health Organization has also put out
a
> > statement that 2.5 - 5m people each year suffer acute pesticide
> > poisoning. Could someone help me find more information on this study -
> > where are the pesticide poisoning hot spots around the world, which
> > specific pesticides are most often involved, how are these people being
> > exposed? How much fresh produce from pesticide hot spots is making it
> > back to the North American market?
> >
> > 6. Could someone suggest sociologists or economists that I could talk to
> > in order to get better figures on world population growth projections -
> > at what rate is world population increasing, what are the projected food
> > needs for 2000,2010, 2050 etc? What is the current estimated starvation
> > and malnutrition rate, as compared to 10 years ago. What are reasonable
> > projections - given current food availability - for
> > starvation/malnutrition 10 years from now? Are there any sociologists
> > who could offer reasonable alternative suggestions on how food
> > availability/distribution inequalities can be handled? Since the crops
> > derived from GM technology on the market today do not show increased
> > yield - they often show yield reductions - what is a more reasonable,
> > reality based and sustainable approach to solving this crisis - not only
> > for producing MORE food, but also producing more nutritious food? Can
> > someone get information on the vitamin A and other nutrient content of
> > brown rice vs. white rice in order to counter the claim that transgenic
> > rice plants are necessary to produce enough vitamin A to protect Third
> > World children against blindness? What are other effective alternative
> > approaches? Also - could someone supply objective yield trial data on
GM
> > soy, corn, and other crops, comparing their yield to non-GM crops of
> > similar varieties?
> >
> > 7. Avery claims that " the modern food system is currently saving
> > something on the order of 18-20 million square miles of wildlands from
> > being plowed for low yield production". The sounds like a lie or at the
> > very minimum, a totally unsupported and incorrect guess to me - but what
> > is a reasonable response here? Given the projected world population
> > growth for the next 10 years, how much more land would be needed with
the
> > current rate of commercial agricultural production? Would more or less
> > land be needed if a substantial portion of that land was farmed
> > organically - using sound organic practices? Would more or less land be
> > needed if 3rd World countries concentrated on planting their adapted
> > landrace varieties rather than adopting the varieties, chemicals and
> > technology of American agribusiness? I have heard Raoul Robinson speak
> > somewhat to this point - could a few recognized experts be able to
> > provide some scientifically and reality based statements concerning how
> > the world's population could be fed in the future without the use high
> > input agriculture - or why high input agriculture is
> > appropriate/inappropriate to Third World areas.
> >
> > 8. Is there any good estimate of how much of labeled 'organic' products
> > currently on the North American market are actually 'certified
organic' -
> > other than the rather disturbing estimate given on the 20/20 program?
> > Any constructive suggestions on how we can control and limit the sale of
> > uncertified products - or some informed comments from NOSB members about
> > how National Standards will help here?
> >
> > 9. Are there other pertinent questions I have not thought of?
> >
> > As an organic farmer, I feel strongly that the best way to counter
> > Avery's type of propaganda is to offer education to conventional farmers
> > about how organic practices can work for them - even if they are not
> > interested in becoming fully certified organic. Showing Avery to be a
> > liar is more effective than telling people he is one. We in the organic
> > community must to figure out how to actively reach out to the
> > conventional farmers - using positive and inclusive language and
> > approaches that conventional farmers can understand and be comfortable
> > with, demonstrating that organic principles and methods are productive
on
> > a scale that they would want to use. But how to reach them? That is
> > the challenge.
> >
> > We need to brainstorm on how to specifically reach out to conventional
> > farmers in a positive, non-critical manner. But, and this is a very
> > important point, we must first try our upmost to be the most excellent
> > organic farmers possible, taking every opportunity to learn improved
> > techniques of weed control and soil fertility management - so no one can
> > cite organic crops as being unproductive or weed infested. As part of
> > their mission, we should insist that our certifiers help and encourage
us
> > to learn and share improved crop production techniques, not simply
> > enforce standards. We must also find ways to encourage conventional
> > farmers to see organic farmers both as allies and friends AND as good
> > farmers, not as the image of unproductive enemies like Avery and his
kind
> > are trying so hard to promote. We should have signs for our fields
this
> > summer - identifying the field as a CERTIFIED ORGANIC field, especially
> > good fields on busy roads - signs that do not specifically identify us
by
> > our particular certifying agency or trade organization (that only
> > confuses most non-organic farmers), but more generically identifying the
> > crop as 'Certified Organic'. We must actively invite key conventional
> > farmers, ag consultants, ag loan officers, leaders in Farm Bureau and
> > other groups, editors of key farming magazines - anyone who is capable
of
> > influencing the ways farmers think - to organic informational events
and
> > have then events they will be interested in and feel comfortable with.
> > What else can we do?
> >
> > Responding directly to Avery like a pack of angry but uncoordinated
> > mosquitoes is what he wants - it makes the organic community look less
> > professional, less influential - we can not afford to perpetuate the
myth
> > that organic farmers are somehow not 'real farmers' and those that
choose
> > to buy organic food are acting emotionally without good scientific
basis.
> > We should first make sure that we, as organic farmers and processors,
> > are doing the absolute best job as we can possibly do to produce the
most
> > excellent product possible. When we say that Avery's claims are lies,
we
> > have to be right - and have information to prove it. Then, we must go to
> > our neighbors, armed with good solid information to counter the lies,
and
> > work cooperatively. We must do this as a unified coherent group - The
> > Organic Community - leaving rivalries, loyalties and differences between
> > certification agencies, between farmers vs. processors etc. out of it.
> > We must speak directly as farmers to other farmers, as consumers to
other
> > consumers, and we must be prepared to answer the questions that
consumers
> > are actually asking.
> >
> > Please help me collect the information that we - as a unified
community -
> > need to prepare for this project.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Mary-Howell Martens
> > kandmhfarm@sprintmail.com
> >
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