As soybean yields increase, the amount of N removed in the harvested grain
increases and the amount of N left in the soil decreases. Above 60 bu/A in
most areas, there is actually a response to N fertilization to the soybeans.
The 40 #/A N credit commonly given following soybeans in a corn/soybean
rotation is really more appropriately an extra 40 #/A N "charge" following
corn. The heavy crop residue following corn results in a significant amount
of N (roughly estimated at the 40 #/A) being tied up in the microorganisms
involved in the decomposition of the corn stalks. This N is tied up in the
organic component of the soil and slowly released as the decomposition
process continues. Hence, there is usually about 40#/A more N needed after
corn than after soybeans. But for practical application, recommendations
commonly consider it a "credit" from the soybean crop. The true situation
is really a lot more complex that this.
Soybeans are grown more often in the rotation than in the past....with many
farms in Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa running about 50% corn and 50%
soybeans. Soybeans do remove significantly more potassium than corn, so
this shift to more acres of soybeans has led to a general depletion of
available K levels in many fields. This is because common practice is to
fertilize ahead of the corn for both crops. With soybeans grown more often,
the fertilizer applications often have not been adjusted to account for this
increased K removal. Soil test summaries across the Midwest show about 60%
of the samples analyzed show a need for build up application of K. That
represents lost yield potential and profits for the farmers.
Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr.
Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute
Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research
111 East Washington Street
Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640
Phone: 217-762-2074
FAX: 217-762-8655
e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org
PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org
InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99
Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu
[mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu]
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 5:10 PM
To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1556
sanet-mg-digest Saturday, January 22 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1556
In this issue:
Re: soybeans deplete soil?
"grass fed better'n grain fed"
Wheaties/grain prices
Re: soybeans deplete soil?
Vit B12/Dr. Campbell/Ms Fallon
Re: vitamin B12
Re: soybeans deplete soil?
Re: soybeans deplete soil
farmers' market workshop
Re: SCIENTISTS PROVE SUPERIOR NUTRITIVE VALUE OF ORGANIC FOOD
See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:49:22 -0600
From: "Laura K. Paine" <lkpaine@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: soybeans deplete soil?
Hello Betsy and everyone,
I don't know of any data that will support the contention that conventional
soybeans deplete soil nitrogen. Both organic and conventional soybeans,
properly innoculated, will fix nitrogen for a net gain in the soil. Most
recommendations suggest that you can credit soybeans for about 40 pounds of
N/acre/season of growth.
Kindest regards,
Laura
PS. (I think I've just doubled my annual posting to SANET with this second
post today!)
At 11:02 AM 1/22/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi everyone -
>
>a friend told me the other day that conventionally grown soybeans
>deplete soil nitrogen. Do inoculated organically grown soybeans create a
>net gain of soil nitrogen, like legume cover crops? Any input
>appreciated. His argument was that grass-fed livestock was easier on
>land while requiring fewer inputs than any conventionally grown field
>crop, and of course I wondered if that was still the case for organics.
>
>
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>
Laura Paine
Crops and Soils Agent
Columbia County Agriculture Center
120 West Conant Street
PO Box 567
Portage, WI 53901-0567
608/742-9680
FAX: 608/742-9862
laura.paine@ces.uwex.edu
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:51:28 -0800
From: William Evans <williamevans@home.com>
Subject: "grass fed better'n grain fed"
His premise is correct.
" His argument was that grass-fed livestock was easier on
land while requiring fewer inputs than any conventionally grown field
crop,"
.. short and sassy..."grass fed better'n grain fed"
maybe?
"a friend told me the other day that conventionally grown soybeans
deplete soil nitrogen.
off the cuff opinion...
First... N is added to the soil as fertilizer..., by man/
animals,plants...
in many forms..
so " soil N" is kinda meaningless term w/o some conotation by the
author.
So , N fluctuates to some degree w/ man's additions of IT to cropland.
It also varies due to many biological processes...
.. and the demands on this supply by soil processes.
...ANd in a strict sense the porosity of the soil has a great deAL of
influence
on the amount of gaseous N in the ' soil air'.
Inoculated beans can help bolster the N supply, but only if adequate
measures
of fertility are in store.... to include elemental deficienceies
/excesses-lack of
one or many elemnts , whether not in supply,
or in supply -just not available...
...can hinder N- fixing by rhizobium type symbiotic bac.
bill evans
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:11:01 -0800
From: Misha <mgs23@pacbell.net>
Subject: Wheaties/grain prices
Howdy, all--
I'm responding to the original question that David Yudkin posed:
>Today in a meeting with Congressman Earl Blumenaur about farming and free
>trade, I said that farmers get 5" for raising the wheat that goes into a
box
>of Wheaties while Tiger Woods gets 10". It really stopped the congressman,
he
>challenged me as to were I got that fact. I thought it came from sanet
though
>I couldn't find it in the archives. Has anyone else heard this figure and
>know were it came from?
I can't locate anything like that. But here are some statistics from
the USDA 1998 /Agriculture Fact Book/ that are related to this
question.
Check out this page of the fact book:
http://www.usda.gov/news/pubs/fbook98/ch1d.htm
It details the Farm-to-Retail Price Spread for various commodity
types. A table shows "Farm value as a percentage of retail price for
domestically produced foods, 1987 and 1997."
In 1997 the farm value, or payment for the raw product, averaged 23
percent of the retail cost (23 cents on the dollar), with the other
77 percent (the farm-retail price spread) covering
beyond-the-farmgate economic activity.
However there is much variation in different farm commodities. In the
table, it shows farm value of cereal and bakery goods standing at 7
percent in 1997. Compared to, for instance, 37 percent for meats and
21 percent for produce and fats and oils. (Side note: this tells you
something about why Americans are leaning toward the obese, when fat
farmers make more than grain farmers...but I digress. :^) Thus you
can see how much diversity the averaged figure of 23 cents on the
dollar obscures.
This doesn't answer David's question directly. But one can
extrapolate from the above figures that for a $3.00 box of breakfast
cereal product, with a 7 percent farm-retail price spread,
approximately 21 cents of the consumer price is going directly to
"the farmer."
Advertising and "other costs" total 6 cents on the dollar, as per the
dollar cost breakdown appearing here:
http://www.usda.gov/news/pubs/fbook98/ch1b.htm
Having said all this, I think David's example can put these issues
into context in a clear and concrete way for consumers. And we need
to dig up solid data to support such wonderfully teachable examples.
It would be intriguing to learn more about what the product promotion
fees are that someone like Tiger Woods in fact receives. There's an
interesting project for an enterprising student.
peace
mish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michele Gale-Sinex
Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH)
Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don't forget that most men would rather protect the possibility of
becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. --John Dickinson
(in the musical /1776/)
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:25:12 -0800
From: Marcie Rosenzweig <fullcircle@jps.net>
Subject: Re: soybeans deplete soil?
Betsy,
Here's a simple farmer's (me) understanding of this.
Anytime you remove crop from the soil, you deplete nutrients, nitrogen
being only one. Seeds are especially rich in nitrogen (protein), so when
you harvest a soy crop, whether conventionally grown or organically grown
with innoculant, you are removing nitrogen from the soil. Because legumous
crops, especially if they are innoculated, fix nitrogen from the air, the
deficit is less than say, corn, which doesn't fix nitrogen. But, it's still
a net loss.
Legumous cover crops add nitrogen because they are totally returned to the
soil where bacteria release the fixed nitrogen as the nodules die. Nothing
is removed. Net gain of N (OK don't go into carbon cycle here)
Your friend with the critters is setting up a straw man argument. His
critters remove crop -grass- from the land along with the nutrients the
soil used to produce that crop. He harvests his secondary crop -critter
flesh(protein)- thus removing those nutrients from where they originated.
The fact that his critters return some of those nutrients while they are
grazing is moot since the form of the nutrients is changed and only those
not used to produce flesh(protein) are returned. I suspect he didn't
mention soil compaction either...
Marcie
Marcie A. Rosenzweig
Full Circle Organic Farm
Auburn, CA
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:16:24 -0600
From: Guillermo Romero <romerog@Prodigy.Net.mx>
Subject: Vit B12/Dr. Campbell/Ms Fallon
In response to the series of posts about Vit B12 , Vegan diets and Organic
food, in both the SANET and BD-Now lists, Ms. Sally Fallon (co-author of
Nourishing Traditions) wrote:
*****************************
Fwd: Re: Sally Fallon's/ organic and nutrition
by Allan Balliett
21
January 2000 21:20 UTC
Special to BD Now!
>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:51:12 EST
>Subject: Re: Sally Fallon's/ organic and nutrition
>
>B12 Debate
>
>There is a form of B12 in plant foods but it is not available to humans and
>some researchers believe that this B12 actually blocks the uptake of the
>animal form.
>
>How do we know that B12 in plants is not absorbed. Consider the rabbits
>who
>eat plant foods all day long. Do they absorb the B12 from the plants? No
>they do not. To get their B12, the eat fermented rabbit pellets (I. e.
>their
>own excrement.)
>
>Human groups who are largely vegetarian get their B12 from insects--either
>small insects in their food (which can makeup as much as 10% of the food)
>or
>larger insects they deliberately catch and eat.
>
>Vegans risk creating a lot of negative karma for themselves with the blithe
>assurance that we can get B12 from plant food. The consequences of B12
>deficiency are very tragic. By the way, the article they quoted from was
>written by Stephen Byrnes who has treated many former vegetarians who
>brought
>themselves to the point of death on a vegan diet. Unfortunately, once the
>damage from B12 deficiency goes too far, a complete recovery is not
>possible.
>
>Colin Campbell is a complete fool who makes claims for his China study that
>are not true, and who is advocating a vegan death diet for growing
>children.
>
>Sally Fallon
********************
I have invited Dr. Colin Campbell from the Division of Nutritional Science
at Cornell University to participate in this discussion, if he chooses to do
so, I will be glad to post his views to the list.
Regards
Guillermo Romero Ibarrola
Comala, Colima, MEXICO
<romerog@Prodigy.Net.mx>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:26:58 -0600
From: "mikerichardson" <mikerichardson@multipro.com>
Subject: Re: vitamin B12
Thank you Klaus, for the very long but informative post on B12. Another
reason that I feel good about being an omnivore type human. As you and
others have stated, all things in moderation, with sufficient variety.
Son of Richard
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:36:47 -0800
From: "Joel B. Gruver" <jgruver@principia.edu>
Subject: Re: soybeans deplete soil?
Hello to all...
There are a number of longterm cropping system studies that have shown that
the inclusion of soybeans in a cropping system can result in loss of soil
organic matter... soybeans are clearly a valuable part of many crop
rotations in term of profitability, breaking of pest cycles, reduced
fertility needs, provision of N for subsequent crops... etc.. nevertheless,
studies clearly show that multiple years of soybeans combined with
intensive tillage often results in depletion of soil organic matter... Soil
organic matter depletion associated with soybeans seems to be related to
the low crop residue return by soybeans and the rapid rate of decomposition
of soybean residues.
If a crop contributes to the loss of total soil organic matter, than the
crop is causing the loss of soil N even if its "annual nitrogen budget"
shows a net gain.
Joel
Joel Gruver
Visiting Faculty
Principia College
Elsah, Illinois 62028
(618) 374 - 5289
jgruver@principia.edu
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:59:18 -0600
From: "mikerichardson" <mikerichardson@multipro.com>
Subject: Re: soybeans deplete soil
Joel's observation is correct. However, the key statement that he made
"nevertheless, studies clearly show that multiple years of soybeans
combined with intensive tillage often results in depletion of soil organic
matter... "
should be explored further before making the incredibly useful and
versitile soybean a bad seed. The key words are "multiple years" and "
intensive tillage."
When used in a rotation with other crops, especially ones that can add
organic matter to soil, the negative effects of soybeans are mitigated or
negligible. Also, when using reduced tillage, no-till, or combinations of
conservation tillage and conventional tillage, again soybeans do very
little or no harm to long term soil organic content.
Mono culture of ANY farm crop can have deliterious effects on soil quality,
not to mention insect and disease build up. Intensive tillage year after
year also has tremendous negative effects on soil quality and productivity.
The value of soybeans to the farm economy and to the public good are quite
far and above the cost to soil organic matter, provided good farming
conservation methods and management are applied.
Son of Richard
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:00:45 -0500
From: Jeff Ishee <farmsted@cfw.com>
Subject: farmers' market workshop
Apologies for cross-posting.
***************************************************
Anyone in the Mid-Atlantic region involved in agricultural direct
marketing will certainly want to check out the Virginia / DC Farmers'
Market Workshop. Scheduled for March 18, 2000 in the beautiful
Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, the event is being co-sponsored by VA
Cooperative Extension, the VA Farmers Direct Marketing Association, and
the Staunton/Augusta Farmers' Market.
A new website has just been posted at:
http://www.marketfarm.homestead.com/home.html
Featured speakers include: Andy Lee, Joel Salatin, Jeff Ishee, Ann
Yonkers, Bernadine Prince, Emmitt Snead, Harry Crosby, Matt Cauley, and
many others.
Virginia Commissioner of Agriculture Carlton Courter will address the
workshop on the importance of public farmers' markets to small farm
operations.
For more information, contact:
VA / DC Farmers' Market Workshop
Registration Coordinator
P.O. Box 52
Middlebrook, VA 24459
(540) 886-9394
farmsted@cfw.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:26:33 -0500
From: Dave Miller <recycler@eclipse.net>
Subject: Re: SCIENTISTS PROVE SUPERIOR NUTRITIVE VALUE OF ORGANIC FOOD
Wytze,
Can you provide backround to the Rutgers food study, ie. year and author
or researcher. Was it at Cook, the ag school? Could you ask Jan M.J.
Storms where the data came from? Greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
recycler dave
Drum In The New Century and Millenium!
_______________________________________
"$"%"$"'"$"%"$"'"$"%"$"'"$"'"$"%"$"'"$"
///////////////////////////////////////
Recycler Dave, Judy, Lucky, Charm, Shush
A remodeler, drummer, farmer, soapmaker
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------------------------------
End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1556
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