Sal, you're the man!
You should become head of NOP!
USDA organic certification is just (yet) another
example of undo government intrusion and heavy handed intervention in
our fine system of free enterprise and directly in the lives and
livelihoods of many good hardworking, productive, resourceful, taxpaying
citizens. Certtification of organic food production systems should not be
mandatory, it should only be voluntary. The american consumer is
intelligent enough to discern what products are worth buying in the
marketplace. Retailers are fully capable of "certifying" the organic
certifiers. Customers can simply look at a regularly-updated chart
posted in plain view in a store to see which certifying agencies the store
recommends, details on their track record and how to find certification
information on each product labelled "organically produced" in the store.
The government cannotget a patent on "I grew this product with materials
suppied by Nature" using methods emulating natural processes."
Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm
http://metalab.unc.edu/permaculture
/intergarden /intergarden/orgfarm /ecolandtech
lflondon@mindspring.com london@metalab.unc.edu
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Sal wrote:
> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 06:45:58 -0800
> From: Sal <sals@rain.org>
> To: Bluestem Associates <bluestem@webserf.net>, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
> Subject: Re: 'Small' farms & certification
>
>
> check out a organic growers web page
> http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bluestem Associates <bluestem@webserf.net>
> To: <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 7:16 PM
> Subject: 'Small' farms & certification
>
>
> > On Mon, 1 Nov 1999 07:21:21 -0800, Sal wrote:
> >
> > >calling a small farm $5000 is a rip off
> > >taking money from folks because they grow organic is a rip off
> >
> > I believe that the US Small business Administration sets the threshhold
> > for 'micro' businesses at $250,000 annual sales and below. That covers
> > 94% of all American farms. I don't know where the upper threshold is,
> > but it's probably more than my businesses are ever likely to gross.
> >
> > Half of US farmers have less than $10,000 in annual sales.
>
> all the more reason not to charge these poor farmers money they need to live
> on. The government they love duplication and overlap and easy made jobs
> and powertrips. they feel organic growing is the cash cow and they are all
> out to milk it . Mafia protection money if you don't pay you can't do
> business. I have to pay a certifier,an inspector,the state of Ca. and now
> you want me to pay the Fed. USDA for the same dam thing. send paper work to
> all four and bow down to the power trips that all four are on. Your a
> farmer king of you farm and you get all these powertripers tell you what u
> have to do to meet their power trip and the funny part is that it has
> nothing to do with if u are organic or not but how u cross your ts and dot
> your i. this is every year over and over .
> it is getting to be real bull shit. and every year someone else forces you
> to pay them. it is always let the farmer pay for it all he can get the
> money back from his customers. where is that guarantee at. and why should
> I tax my customers who are the only folks I care about.
>
>
> > *However* when I was living in Wisconsin I was tangentially involved in
> > a case in which an organic grower was routinely using calcium nitrate
> > and some other prohibited materials. If he was bigger than $5,000, it
> > wasn't by a lot.
>
>
>
> so what if there is a thief in a town they don't search every ones house in
> the whole town to find the one thief why make the honest folks pay because
> someone cheats.
>
>
> > Cheaters come in all sizes, including small, which is why they, too,
> > need to be certified. The organic premium is supposed (in part) to
> > cover the *additional* costs of producing organically, is it not.
> > Additional costs like paperwork and certification.
>
>
> this is bull shit I don't get a organic premium and I'm lucky to sell my
> stuff at the same price big farmers get. this is the most bullshit I ever
> heard . are u going to guarantee me a premium? who guarantees me a
> supposed premium the certifier the inspector the state of ca the usda .
>
> > I'm not sure who is "ripping off" whom when organic growers want the
> > full premium for their production, but seem pathologically unwilling to
> > make the efforts in soil care and recordkeeping (including
> > certification) to justify that premium.
>
> all these certifiers and inspectors and usda made jobs and state run
> rip-offs don't make me organic and don't justify any premium I may get it
> is the fact that I farm organic my own labor not what these pencle pushers
> do . if you don't trust me and you don't trust CCOF and you don't trust
> IFOAM and you don't trust the state of Ca. what makes you think they will
> trust the USDA. i don't understand if I did not do anything different this
> year than last year why just because the date changes and it 99 or 20000 why
> do they all get to line up and get paid again . just because the year
> changes does not mean I changed anything. so why every year what does that
> date change have to do with being organic .
>
>
>
> > I have been on 2 acre organic vegetable farms with 125-150 ton/acre
> > annual erosion rates. They were pocketing their premium and giving
> > absolutely nothing back to the land. Their sales were under $5,000 but
> > they should no more have the right to call themselves organic than if
> > they had been using Sevin to control squash bugs. It us the
> > certification process --- with all its flaws --- that should be making
> > that determination. Self-definition as organic, regardless of size, is
> > simply wrong.
>
>
> so what! you know a cheater big deal so make every one doing good give up
> their right to innocent until proven guilty and the organic grower is guilty
> until he pays to prove he is innocent. and pays and pays and pays over and
> over again every year. year after year.to more and more people. bullshit.
> I did not do anything different this year than last year yet they line up to
> get their pound of flesh every year. are you organic ok pay us. bullshit
> why should I pay more than a chemical farmer to sell my goods . whats is
> fair about that.
> who is this USDA and STATE and inspector and certifier that their word is
> better than mine and why should I pay all of them.
>
> What happen to my robe of innocence?
>
> you mean the state does not trust the certifier and the certifier does not
> trust the inspector and the USDA does not trust any of them. hehe I am
> certified for my customers but this is getting nuts. I can't even support
> me let alone a big bureaucratic sink hole. every one charging what they
> like and I am in the middle being force to pay what every they ask and do
> what every they ask and bow to all these folks that don't do shit for me but
> take my money. My customers are happy with my CCOF and IFoam certification
> and I don't need any more people to pay off.
> so you know a cheater turn him in don't make me pay for his wrong doing I
> can't afford it. turn in his certifier turn in his inspector but because
> some one growing organic may cheat don't make me pay over and over again to
> more and more people what ever they bill me.
> the inspectors just gave themselves another raise now they get full pay for
> driving to your house plus gas and motel room . the state guy is getting
> paid and only works a three day week is on a real powertrip just talking to
> him makes me sick and they did not send me my registration for over 8 months
> just to show me how much power they have. powertripers they got to show you
> they got the power if you are cheating or not and the USDA is releasing
> living Frankenstein plants that will make organic growing imposable. you
> think drift was a problem wait till these GMO start to drift. and you want
> me to bow down and kiss up to these folks. don't get me started. they all
> got to show you how much power they got don't do any thing to help u only
> there to whip their power trip on you . yes boss slavemasters extortionists
> the Mafia won that's why you don't hear about them. now the government
> controls the gambling and the loan sharking and the extortion. When the
> Mafia did it they called it numbers game now the government calls it the
> lottery . you better worry about the real cheaters the fox you all want to
> watch the hen house. Just say no to the organic tax just say no to
> oppression of the poor and rightous.
>
>
>
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