Re: Is Dennis Avery a liar and other questions?

Greg & Lei Gunthorp (hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com)
Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:37:15 -0500

Where do I get ahold of this John Robbins peice? What I think is
destabilizing to rural communities is the US mentality that animals have to
be raised on exclusive grain diets in sunless, cruel, concentrated
environments. The average system does pose a lot of social, environmental,
and economic risks to consumers and farmers alike. There are alternatives.
It is not the animals that are the problem. It is the system. Animal
production can play a key role in sustainable agriculture. In fact, I'm
still trying to understand how large scale organic production can be done
without animal production. The soil building qualities of intensive
grazing and compost from livestock manure are too numerous to mention.
Before we even start mentioning the gross sales per acre compared with
crops. Besides, where do most of these grains go anyhow?

What I would like to hear discussion on is the sustainability of organic
farms in the US midwest without livestock either in the rotation or as part
of the nutrient source. I don't think they are very common.

Best wishes,
Greg Gunthorp
Free Range hog, chicken, and rabbit farmer

----------
> From: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg <wibekkah@picusnet.com>
> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
> Subject: Is Dennis Avery a liar and other questions?
> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:27 PM
>
> Hello again,
>
> I've been following the Dennis Avery threads and reading John Robbins
> and I have to admit, I am really confused. I went to college for three
> years during which time the vast majority of my classes were in the
> physical sciences so I am almost completely unfamiliar with biological
> science. What I don't understand is this; how can scientists in the
> same discipline come up with different answers to the same questions?
> That is pretty darn impossible in physics and math so why is it so
> common in these other scientific disciplines? Is somebody lying? I
> have a hard time believing that because nobody wins if the environment
> is destroyed. It's not like there's another planet for the well heeled
> to run to.
>
> I have read some of Dennis Avery's words and he is a smooth talking
> guy. He is also, I think, clearly intelligent. Clinton was a Rhodes
> scholar. John Robbins presents what seems to be a clear picture that
> meat production is destabilizing other economies, causing wide spread
> hunger and is responsible for untold environmental damage. Add to this
> picture the consequences of the global market which tend to force the
> price of commodities ever downward and it all seems like "A Really Bad
> Idea" yet Clinton and I presume Gore and I presume George W., should he
> get elected, and Reagan, and Bush etc... are now or have been promoting
> these policies. Why?
>
> Not even the greediest, most unscrupulous person in the world would set
> fire to a house he cannot leave to make a profit.
>
> Another question: how does vertical integration differ from a monopoly?
> It's been a long time since I studied monopolies but they seem to pretty
> much the same thing.
>
> Is Monsanto doing anything, actually as opposed to some day in some
> hypothetical future, to combat world hunger? From what I've read, they
> are contributing to hunger by promoting those crops that take arable
> land out of local food production by concentrating on feed grade
> soybeans and corn and cotton. Do they know this? I know somebody who
> retired from Monsanto and he seem's like a nice guy.
>
> All my information is second hand but I do see that most of the people
> who are pro GM etc..., make their living from the mega corps. And I
> find it deeply troubling that these same people seem to be in and out of
> government jobs. Still, I come back to my basic premise: No one sets
> his house on fire.
>
> Thanks
>
> Sasha
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the
command
> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest".
> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest".
>
> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
> http://www.sare.org/htdocs/hypermail

To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command
"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest".
To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
"subscribe sanet-mg-digest".

All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
http://www.sare.org/htdocs/hypermail