I think I had better open my mouth this time, since it seems I am the only one
still alive in US who really knows the whole history of IFOAM.
This is long, but if you want to know the real, inside face of this, here
are the facts, and you will never again have an opportunity to know about it.
If you really want to know the whole truth, never told anywhere before, here
it is.
It is a rather long story, but this is the real basis of the whole IFOAM
affair.
I am the ONLY USA MEMBER of IFOAM who has been a member since the beginning of
it--non stop..
It was originally taken over, very competently, by Dr. Hardy Vogtmann, after
some young fellow made a mess of it, stole the books of its library, etc etc.
What really started it all---and this you can learn from me only, as there
is undoubtedly no one else around who knows all the details, is may own lone
effort------ so here goes:
I had been totally immersed in an effort to help people learn about organic
method, way back in the 1960's. I started the organic movement in California,
inadvertently, by inventing and teaching the FIRST IN THE WORLD course in
organic method, for university degree credit, and transfer degree credit.
I started at UC Berkeley at the time of the so-called "Flower
Children"--well, I had been pushing organics even earlier around the Bay Area..
But I got the idea of teaching at other campuses, so for 5 yrs I traveled up and
down the state, teaching in a different county every day, sometimes 3 classes a
day. That is what got the whole uproar going, as the media helped me so very
much.
One time I managed to be able to speak at the "enemy" campus of UCDavis,
only because a grad student designed a debate series there, between the organic
side and the "enemy" side--university/chemical company clique. It became
famous instantly.
He set up the first one, on medical basis. People came from ALL OVER,
driving hundreds of miles at furious pace, after working hours, to get to
UCDavis campus in time. The auditorium was jammed full. The debate became so
uproarious, so venemous from the academic/chemical side, that the UC authorities
nearly canceled the whole thing.
The 2nd debate was between 2 soils profs at UCD , for the "enemy" side, and
Robert Rodale and myself on the organic side. I was astounded that the Soils
Profs were both very, very polite, pleasant, and referred to me several times as
"our colleague, Dr. Rateaver". It just took the wind out of my sails. I had
expected vituperation.
The students just made such an uproar, interrupting my speech several times
with clapping, stamping feet, yelling. Clearly, the campus was in favor of
organics, tho no prof dared to approve my course so I never got to teach there.
But Robert Rodale said to me: You had the whole audience in your hand. So he
came later to speak to my class, and eventually he offered me the opportunity to
teach, nationwide, at the expense of Rodale Press. I could not take advantage
of that, as I had an aged mother to take care of, and a teenage son to put thru
college. But it was probably a mistake on my part, as Robert Rodale interpreted
it as a snub. But he got to know who I was.
The importance of all this is:
It was while I was in the Bay Area that I got the idea of having a WORLD
meeting on organics. So I set up arrangements at the San Francisco Hilton Hotel,
and started writing around for companies to take booths.
Friends (former students) printed up stationery for me, as a gift: First
International Conference on Organic Method for Farm and Garden.
I used this stationery to write around to get exhibitors and speakers.
The first effort I made to get a speaker was to try to phone Robert Rodale
to ask him to speak. For some unknown reason I got some male secretary who
snubbed me completely: "Oh yeah, there are other people who want to speak to him
too." So I did not get to ask Robert Rodale to be the key speaker.
One of my students, knowing of my Hotel arrangements, took it upon himself,
officiously, to write to Rodale Press and tell them about the conference I was
setting up. The managing editor, Mr. Goldman, whom I had already known by phone
and correspondence, phoned me and said, " Jerry Goldstein ( at that time 1 of
the 3 owners of Rodale Press) called me to ask what is this? Something as
important as this and WE NOT KNOW ABOUT IT? I did not know what to say!!"
So I explained that I HAD tried to tell Rodale Press about my conference and
invite Robert Rodale to speak, but I had been snubbed by some male secretary. So
from then on it seemed Rodale Press was not so friendly to me, although always
very polite and helpful and generous with books.
.
BUT, right after Rodale Press heard that I had set up for an International
Meeting, dated for Jan 1-4, 1973, with 72 speakers, they IMMEDIATELY made
extremely rapid arrangements in France for THEIR international meeting, to be
held 2 months before mine, for Nov 72. They put out a special publication, with
a brown paper covering and green printing, to alert everyone to this sudden,
newly invented INTERNATIONAL meeting.
Well, I did get my meeting done, using every last penny of the only 1-year job
payment I had received, so I did not go into debt for it.
But when I saw Rodale Press had initiated their own program, to make sure it
PREDATED MINE, I could see the handwriting on the wall, and I never again
attempted to have an intl meeting on my own.
My own effort was not needed, since Europe had , at Rodale initiative,
undertaken to do it.
So I just immediately offered to be a member, I sent copies of all the books I
had published, etc. etc. The young Frenchman who had so suddently been enlisted
to run IFOAM was clearly a flop. He absconded with the books I sent for the
IFOAM library, and probably with everything else too. I sent a second set.
But the saving grace was that somebody smart got Dr. Hardy Vogtmann to take
over, and that is exactly what he did. He made IFOAM the worldwide authority it
is today. He set up everything marvelously, with typical German competence, and
ran it like clockwork.
It is thanks to him that IFOAM became so suddenly, with great effort, THE
international authority on how to do organic farming. He became the first Ph.D.
prof to run a Ph.D.granting department of organics, at the German
university--Kassel , at Witzenhausen.
I took advantage of his great knowledge and got to know him personally,
several times when he was in California, and of course, also at the IFOAM
meeting in Montreal.
So IFOAM is the intl authority it is today, due toHIS work. Rodale Press I think
supported it, or at least paid most of its cost, to start with,but soon dropped
out and was never again a prominent name with it. Rodale Press had accomplished
its purpose--to make sure it was THEY and not I, who would be known for an
international meeting. IFOAM became well known and funds came to it, so it has
sailed on ever since.
It was one of Dr. Vogymann's students, Bernard Geier, who took over the
helm, and Dr. Vogtmann went on to be the German equivalent of the job Glickman
has today. Now he has his own "ecofarm" and has Prince Charles as visitor
===everyone knows Prince Charles has his own organic farm.
So I pat myself on the back for having BOMBED Rodale Press into sponsoring the
beginnings of IFOAM.
THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF IFOAM. Rodale Press had the money and pushed
their sponsored meeting into existence at once, though they dropped special
interest thereafter, and that name eventually became the now internationally
known IFOAM.
It was only when the corporations started taking an interest in it, after IFOAM
became a big thing, that I began to worry about it. I think that was also when
Dr. Vogtmann started to wonder about it too. He had had to quit, being totally
exhausted [naturally], with all he had to do, running the whole
First-in-the-world course with Ph.D. level degrees, and doing the IFOAM too. His
health began to go.
I felt that as soon as the big money people started to take an interest, after
all of us real organic people had done the hard work to get IFOAM afloat
internationally, that there would be trouble ahead.
One cause for trouble showed up pretty fast. One of the main values of IFOAM
is the requirement of decent treatment for workers--"socially just". It did not
take long before some company started to protest that clause.
Well, I still pay my yearly fee. That amount of money I could always stretch out
somehow, but when the corporations began to enter, suddenly the fees became
astronomical. I protested, and as a special favor to ME, "because of all you
have done for the organic movement", I am allowed to pay half, but it is still a
stretch, and there are things about it that worry me, but so far I have stuck to
it.
If I just can't find that much money in my purse, and still eat at least 1
meal a day, I suppose Mr. Geier would still OK my full membership anyway, just
out of pity, and because everyone knows of my so intense interest in organics,
and that I have written the one and only text , and a book that turns out to be
the most comprehensive in the world on the subject..
But, and here I thank Dr. Nigh for his input, it is certainly NOT THE POSITION
OF academia to startt sneering or making cracks about IFOAM. Academia had
absolutely nothing to do with any of it, and they can just keep their snooty
noses out!
Academia, as an institution, is the enemy that fought me when I worked like
mad to get organic method installed in the world's educational system , as a
valid, degree-worth course. I taught for 5 years, wrote the ONLY TEXT, and was
running up and down the state every week, using up 4 cars, driving over half a
million miles, and I never got paid enough for even the gas, let alone for my
time, effort and knowledge of the field.
So, ACADEMIA, SHUT UP!!
=====================================================
Ronald Nigh wrote:
> Dear Mr Rogers,
> This is a spiteful and venomous comment and I wonder at its motivation. It
> does not contribute to the rational evaulation of organic agriculture, the
> most significant worldwide attempt on the part farmers to actually practice
> an alternative "sustainable" agriculture.
>
> IFOAM has, for many years, received the disdain of American politicians,
> academics and even many famers. It seems to represent a threat to some US
> interests. This is unfortunate since IFOAM, more than any other
> organization, as achieved an international forum for open discussion among
> organic farmers and researchers. It has created, through a process of
> democratic concensus and long before there were any "national organic
> standards", the only world standards for organic agriculture and has
> received ISO recognition as a reference. This is a significant achievement
> for organic agriculture. IFOAM is made up of humans and therefore is not
> perfect. But Americans who wish to advance the practice of organic
> agriculture and its influence in world development and agricultural
> policies would do well to support IFOAM's efforts.
>
> I might point out that organic agriculture is the only farming system in
> the world that has written standards and an inspection and certification
> system in place to guarantee that those standards are met. It is for this
> reason that organic food is receiving the increasing approval and
> confidence of consumers throughout the world, growing at the pace of 20-30%
> per year and IFOAM's document states. IFOAM standards have played a key
> role in this process and in harmonizing standards between countries. This
> is compentent leadership in sustainable agriculture--both on the part of
> IFOAM and of organic farmers--far more so that anything USDA has given us.
>
> Indeed the current efforts by government and corporate scientists to
> discredit organics is an indication of its successful ascent in the favor
> of consumers. Organic agriculture was around long before the term
> "sustainability" was coined by the politicians, so it is not quite
> accurate to say that it is sustainability put in to practice. As
> practiced, it is far from ideal, as we have often discussed on this list.
> But it is the only system being practiced by large numbers of famers today
> that has even approached ecological, economic and social sanity. It is the
> only system that offers a concrete alternative to farmers, including an
> established, more direct market. It is far more than just a "soil based
> system of agroecosystem managment". It is a practical philosophy, not only
> of farming, but of community, stewardship and relationship with the land.
> The experience of thousands of organic farmers, processors, merchants,
> consumer coops and scientists belies the validity of your outburst. Organic
> agriculture is already providing leadership in sustainable agriculture and
> no serious consideration of our agroecological future can fail to take this
> experience into account, whatever deficiencies it may have.
>
> Personally, I found the IFOAM statement pertinent and inspiring which is
> why I wanted to share it with SANET.
>
> At 08:31 AM 17/09/99 -0600, you wrote:
> >snip: It's logical, therefore, to conclude
> >"organic agriculture is Sustainability put into practice".
> >
> >Having become quite immune to IFOAM's pompous and ill founded
> >statements I find that I am surprisingly livid at the contemplation of this
> >particular rendition.
> >
> >Organiculture, as I learned it, holds the same potential today that it has
> >for the past seventy five years. As a SOIL based system of
> >agroecosystem management it offers the future possibility of long-term
> >Sustainability. To project that potential on to the current practice of
> >organic agriculture and to make such pronouncements as the above
> >insures that the "Organic Movement" will find no place in the leadership
> >of competent agriculture in the next century.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Ted Rogers, Biologist
> >USDA-Office of Pest Management Policy
> >
> >
> Ronald Nigh
> Dana, A.C.
> Mexico, D.F. & San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas
> Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF)
> 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas)
> danamex@mail.internet.com.mx
--------------3E374572D17E881A7DE433D4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I think I had better open my mouth this time, since it seems I am the only
one still alive in US who really knows the whole history of IFOAM.
This is long, but if you want to know the real,
inside face of this, here are the facts, and you will never again have
an opportunity to know about it.
If you really want to know the whole truth, never told
anywhere before, here it is.
It is a rather long story, but this is the real basis
of the whole IFOAM affair.
I am the ONLY USA MEMBER of IFOAM who has been a member since the beginning of it--non stop..
It was originally taken over, very competently, by Dr. Hardy Vogtmann, after some young fellow made a mess of it, stole the books of its library, etc etc.
What really started it all---and this you can learn
from me only, as there is undoubtedly no one else around who knows all
the details, is may own lone effort------ so here goes:
I had been totally immersed in an effort to help people learn about
organic method, way back in the 1960's. I started the organic movement
in California, inadvertently, by inventing and teaching the FIRST IN THE
WORLD course in organic method, for university degree credit, and transfer
degree credit.
I started at UC Berkeley at the time of the so-called
"Flower Children"--well, I had been pushing organics even earlier around
the Bay Area.. But I got the idea of teaching at other campuses, so for
5 yrs I traveled up and down the state, teaching in a different county
every day, sometimes 3 classes a day. That is what got the whole uproar
going, as the media helped me so very much.
One time I managed to be able to speak at the "enemy"
campus of UCDavis, only because a grad student designed a debate series
there, between the organic side and the "enemy" side--university/chemical
company clique. It became famous instantly.
He set up the first one, on medical
basis. People came from ALL OVER, driving hundreds of miles at furious
pace, after working hours, to get to UCDavis campus in time. The auditorium
was jammed full. The debate became so uproarious, so venemous from
the academic/chemical side, that the UC authorities nearly canceled the
whole thing.
The 2nd debate was between 2 soils profs at UCD , for
the "enemy" side, and Robert Rodale and myself on the organic side. I was
astounded that the Soils Profs were both very, very polite, pleasant, and
referred to me several times as "our colleague, Dr. Rateaver". It just
took the wind out of my sails. I had expected vituperation.
The students just made such an uproar, interrupting
my speech several times with clapping, stamping feet, yelling. Clearly,
the campus was in favor of organics, tho no prof dared to approve my course
so I never got to teach there.
But Robert Rodale said to me: You had the whole audience in your hand. So he came later to speak to my class, and eventually he offered me the opportunity to teach, nationwide, at the expense of Rodale Press. I could not take advantage of that, as I had an aged mother to take care of, and a teenage son to put thru college. But it was probably a mistake on my part, as Robert Rodale interpreted it as a snub. But he got to know who I was.
The importance of all this is:
It was while I was in the Bay Area that I got the
idea of having a WORLD meeting on organics. So I set up arrangements at
the San Francisco Hilton Hotel, and started writing around for companies
to take booths.
Friends (former students) printed up stationery
for me, as a gift: First International Conference on Organic Method for
Farm and Garden.
I used this stationery to write around to get exhibitors
and speakers.
The first effort I made to get a speaker was to
try to phone Robert Rodale to ask him to speak. For some unknown reason
I got some male secretary who snubbed me completely: "Oh yeah, there are
other people who want to speak to him too." So I did not get to ask Robert
Rodale to be the key speaker.
One of my students, knowing of my Hotel arrangements,
took it upon himself, officiously, to write to Rodale Press and tell them
about the conference I was setting up. The managing editor, Mr. Goldman,
whom I had already known by phone and correspondence, phoned me and said,
" Jerry Goldstein ( at that time 1 of the 3 owners of Rodale Press) called
me to ask what is this? Something as important as this and WE NOT KNOW
ABOUT IT? I did not know what to say!!"
So I explained that I HAD tried to tell Rodale Press about my
conference and invite Robert Rodale to speak, but I had been snubbed by
some male secretary. So from then on it seemed Rodale Press was not so
friendly to me, although always very polite and helpful and generous
with books.
.
BUT, right after Rodale Press heard that I had set up for an International
Meeting, dated for Jan 1-4, 1973, with 72 speakers, they IMMEDIATELY
made extremely rapid arrangements in France for THEIR international
meeting, to be held 2 months before mine, for Nov 72. They put out a special
publication, with a brown paper covering and green printing, to alert everyone
to this sudden, newly invented INTERNATIONAL meeting.
Well, I did get my meeting done, using every last penny of the only
1-year job payment I had received, so I did not go into debt for it.
But when I saw Rodale Press had initiated their
own program, to make sure it PREDATED MINE, I could see the handwriting
on the wall, and I never again attempted to have an intl meeting on my
own.
My own effort was not needed, since Europe had ,
at Rodale initiative, undertaken to do it.
So I just immediately offered to be a member, I sent copies of all the books I had published, etc. etc. The young Frenchman who had so suddently been enlisted to run IFOAM was clearly a flop. He absconded with the books I sent for the IFOAM library, and probably with everything else too. I sent a second set.
But the saving grace was that somebody smart got Dr. Hardy Vogtmann
to take over, and that is exactly what he did. He made IFOAM the worldwide
authority it is today. He set up everything marvelously, with typical German
competence, and ran it like clockwork.
It is thanks to him that IFOAM became so suddenly,
with great effort, THE international authority on how to do organic farming.
He became the first Ph.D. prof to run a Ph.D.granting department of organics,
at the German university--Kassel , at Witzenhausen.
I took advantage of his great knowledge and got
to know him personally, several times when he was in California, and of
course, also at the IFOAM meeting in Montreal.
So IFOAM is the intl authority it is today, due toHIS work. Rodale Press I think supported it, or at least paid most of its cost, to start with,but soon dropped out and was never again a prominent name with it. Rodale Press had accomplished its purpose--to make sure it was THEY and not I, who would be known for an international meeting. IFOAM became well known and funds came to it, so it has sailed on ever since.
It was one of Dr. Vogymann's students, Bernard Geier, who took over the helm, and Dr. Vogtmann went on to be the German equivalent of the job Glickman has today. Now he has his own "ecofarm" and has Prince Charles as visitor ===everyone knows Prince Charles has his own organic farm.
So I pat myself on the back for having BOMBED Rodale Press into sponsoring the beginnings of IFOAM.
THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF IFOAM. Rodale Press had the money and pushed their sponsored meeting into existence at once, though they dropped special interest thereafter, and that name eventually became the now internationally known IFOAM.
It was only when the corporations started taking an interest in it, after IFOAM became a big thing, that I began to worry about it. I think that was also when Dr. Vogtmann started to wonder about it too. He had had to quit, being totally exhausted [naturally], with all he had to do, running the whole First-in-the-world course with Ph.D. level degrees, and doing the IFOAM too. His health began to go.
I felt that as soon as the big money people started to take an interest,
after all of us real organic people had done the hard work to get IFOAM
afloat internationally, that there would be trouble ahead.
One cause for trouble showed up pretty fast. One
of the main values of IFOAM is the requirement of decent treatment for
workers--"socially just". It did not take long before some company
started to protest that clause.
Well, I still pay my yearly fee. That amount of money I could always
stretch out somehow, but when the corporations began to enter, suddenly
the fees became astronomical. I protested, and as a special favor to ME,
"because of all you have done for the organic movement", I am allowed to
pay half, but it is still a stretch, and there are things about it that
worry me, but so far I have stuck to it.
If I just can't find that much money in my
purse, and still eat at least 1 meal a day, I suppose Mr. Geier would still
OK my full membership anyway, just out of pity, and because everyone knows
of my so intense interest in organics, and that I have written the one
and only text , and a book that turns out to be the most comprehensive
in the world on the subject..
But, and here I thank Dr. Nigh for his input, it is certainly NOT THE POSITION OF academia to startt sneering or making cracks about IFOAM. Academia had absolutely nothing to do with any of it, and they can just keep their snooty noses out!
Academia, as an institution, is the enemy that fought me when I worked like mad to get organic method installed in the world's educational system , as a valid, degree-worth course. I taught for 5 years, wrote the ONLY TEXT, and was running up and down the state every week, using up 4 cars, driving over half a million miles, and I never got paid enough for even the gas, let alone for my time, effort and knowledge of the field.
So, ACADEMIA, SHUT UP!!
=====================================================
Ronald Nigh wrote:
Dear Mr Rogers,--------------3E374572D17E881A7DE433D4-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/htdocs/hypermail
This is a spiteful and venomous comment and I wonder at its motivation. It
does not contribute to the rational evaulation of organic agriculture, the
most significant worldwide attempt on the part farmers to actually practice
an alternative "sustainable" agriculture.IFOAM has, for many years, received the disdain of American politicians,
academics and even many famers. It seems to represent a threat to some US
interests. This is unfortunate since IFOAM, more than any other
organization, as achieved an international forum for open discussion among
organic farmers and researchers. It has created, through a process of
democratic concensus and long before there were any "national organic
standards", the only world standards for organic agriculture and has
received ISO recognition as a reference. This is a significant achievement
for organic agriculture. IFOAM is made up of humans and therefore is not
perfect. But Americans who wish to advance the practice of organic
agriculture and its influence in world development and agricultural
policies would do well to support IFOAM's efforts.I might point out that organic agriculture is the only farming system in
the world that has written standards and an inspection and certification
system in place to guarantee that those standards are met. It is for this
reason that organic food is receiving the increasing approval and
confidence of consumers throughout the world, growing at the pace of 20-30%
per year and IFOAM's document states. IFOAM standards have played a key
role in this process and in harmonizing standards between countries. This
is compentent leadership in sustainable agriculture--both on the part of
IFOAM and of organic farmers--far more so that anything USDA has given us.Indeed the current efforts by government and corporate scientists to
discredit organics is an indication of its successful ascent in the favor
of consumers. Organic agriculture was around long before the term
"sustainability" was coined by the politicians, so it is not quite
accurate to say that it is sustainability put in to practice. As
practiced, it is far from ideal, as we have often discussed on this list.
But it is the only system being practiced by large numbers of famers today
that has even approached ecological, economic and social sanity. It is the
only system that offers a concrete alternative to farmers, including an
established, more direct market. It is far more than just a "soil based
system of agroecosystem managment". It is a practical philosophy, not only
of farming, but of community, stewardship and relationship with the land.
The experience of thousands of organic farmers, processors, merchants,
consumer coops and scientists belies the validity of your outburst. Organic
agriculture is already providing leadership in sustainable agriculture and
no serious consideration of our agroecological future can fail to take this
experience into account, whatever deficiencies it may have.Personally, I found the IFOAM statement pertinent and inspiring which is
why I wanted to share it with SANET.At 08:31 AM 17/09/99 -0600, you wrote:
>snip: It's logical, therefore, to conclude
>"organic agriculture is Sustainability put into practice".
>
>Having become quite immune to IFOAM's pompous and ill founded
>statements I find that I am surprisingly livid at the contemplation of this
>particular rendition.
>
>Organiculture, as I learned it, holds the same potential today that it has
>for the past seventy five years. As a SOIL based system of
>agroecosystem management it offers the future possibility of long-term
>Sustainability. To project that potential on to the current practice of
>organic agriculture and to make such pronouncements as the above
>insures that the "Organic Movement" will find no place in the leadership
>of competent agriculture in the next century.
>
>Best,
>
>Ted Rogers, Biologist
>USDA-Office of Pest Management Policy
>
>
Ronald Nigh
Dana, A.C.
Mexico, D.F. & San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas
Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF)
529-678-72-15 (Chiapas)
danamex@mail.internet.com.mx