Some brief responses below.
John Ikerd
-----Original Message-----
From: Wilson, Dale [mailto:WILSONDO@phibred.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 10:36 AM
To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
Cc: 'Ikerd, John E.'
Subject: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related)
John,
> Spirituality and religion are not the same things -
> although we are not likely to have a discussion of one
> without the other. To me, spirituality simply means a
> felt need to be in harmony with some higher order of
things.
IMO, "spirituality" in the environmentalist community is a
derivative of
christianity, with a vaguley defined Telos, Entelechy or
Universal-Mind-Soul
in the place of God.
I suspect for some this true and for others it's not.
Despite the "deep ecologists" over in the corner, most
of what I hear on Sanet seems to be part of the general
(primarily social)
progressive vision of the enlightenment, a christian
derivative. Values
like equity, freedom, and health dominate the discussion.
It seems quite
anthropocentric.
Anthropocentricity (at least in the sense of belief that
humans are special) does not exclude legitimate concern for other species
nor for other elements of the natural environment.
> We have to conform to some higher order of things rather
> than bend and twist nature to things to fit every whim.
This is a statement of the natural law ethics of the
movement. The "higher
order of things" is the putative guiding hand of Nature (God
substitute),
and the law is written in the biosphere as opposed to stone
tablets. The
difficulty IMO, is that reading the "Law" is difficult in
practice, and many
people do so through the lense of idiosyncratic social
theory. This
contributes to the anthropocentricity.
Important tasks frequently are quite challenging. Lots of
different approaches may be worthy of pursuit.
> Sustainability ultimately is about intergenerational
equity -
> to meet the needs of the present while leaving equal or
better
> opportunities for the future.
YES! THAT, is a good definition of sustainability. But it
still isn't a big
help in the exegesis of natural law.
The fact that it's neither simple nor easy doesn't mean that
it not worth doing.
> Most seem to agree that sustainable systems must be
> economically viable, ecologically sound, and socially
> responsible.
Everybody from the heads of Dupont and Monsanto on down
would agree with
that statement. The devil is in the details, and it depends
on how you
interpret natural law, and whether you buy into the concept
of natural law.
Right. Look for evidence of spirituality as an indicator of
whether a "sustainable agriculture" program actually addresses
sustainability or is instead an advertising or public relations strategy.
> We are concerned about ecological "sustainability" only if
we
> have some felt need to live in harmony with some higher
order
> of things - if we are spiritual.
What about physicalists (those who do not believe in the
existence of a
"higher order") but nevertheless do care?
I don't know why they would care about something in which
they have no individual or shared interest unless they believed that there
was some other legitimate reason - something beyond themselves and each
other, i.e. some higher order - that provides with an incentive or
responsibility to caring.
> If we do not believe in a higher order, or do not feel a
need
> to find harmony with it, there is no logical reason to be
> concerned about whether or not people thousands of years
from now
> will have opportunities equal to or better than we have
today.
Are you familiar with E.O. Wilson's view that altruism is
instinctive, honed
by group selection? He is a physicalist and former
evangelical christian.
Can ethics derived from apparent evolution of altruism
(another reading of
nature) form a basis for sustainability (intergenerational
sense)?
I believe that true altruism is a product of spirituality,
regardless of how it is logically derived or has culturally evolved.
Dale
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