>Dan:
>
>This kind of ranting really destroys the credibility of this forum. I have
>tried to be tolerant of most of what I read here, but attacks such as this
>one on USDA and industry and scientists in general go too far. I can
assume
>this is personal opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but in my
>career in Extension and in industry, I have felt an obligation to avoid
>public comments of personal opinion like the ones posted in this message.
I
>think it destroys your credibility, but more important undermines the
>credibility of Extension as an unbiased source of information. (Since this
>is an Extension forum.) That credibility was established by many years of
>hard working people who took that credibility seriously as a trust from the
>public to be protected. Maybe the electronic medium makes it less
important
>to watch what you "say", but I hope not. I do not think you will find
>either USDA or industry to be full of non-caring, non-religious people who
>intentionally poison and injure the public. Most of us work very hard to
do
>just the opposite. I am sorry you felt a need to make such comments on
this
>forum and undermine what is generally a useful exchange of ideas. I hope I
>am not the only one who is offended by this.
>
>
>Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr.
>Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute
>Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research
>111 East Washington Street
>Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640
>
>Phone: 217-762-2074
>FAX: 217-762-8655
>e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org
>PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org
>InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99
>Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu
>[mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu]
>Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 11:01 AM
>To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253
>
>
>sanet-mg-digest Friday, August 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number
1253
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> GM and religion
> Re: Truth & Belief
> Re: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases
> Probiotics for the troops
> Re: Irradiated food
> Organic feed grains
> REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette
> Farmer's markets and street music
> RE: Organic feed grains
> Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1252
> Save the Date--December 2-3, 1999
> faith and truth continued
>
>See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:57:54 -0400
>From: "Dan Hook" <guldann@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: GM and religion
>
>>Snipped quite a bit of below message. I do not think the GM food
>producers can ignore persons who diet forbids certain foods. This group
>most likely will not be swayed. Its only in the past week in various posts
>that the issue of "pure" food due to religious reasons got me thinking. I
>had already thought and felt sorry for the person who say is allergic to
>nuts and reads every label etc. Then bites into some totally nut unrelated
>food and has a allergic reaction. Anyone who is strict about there diet
>either allergy or religion has probably already for years been a very
>careful consumer. I think this is a group to be reckoned with. Consumers
>who know what the want to spend THEIR money on. Someone said it before
>"isn't the consumer always right?" These consumers will go elsewhere,
>organics, CSAs, co-ops etc in search of their food and I can't imagine they
>are a tiny group. I just found this very interesting. I was wondering is
>there such a thing as a kosher garden, kosher CSA etc? Beth
>
>the USDA and these big money companies don't care about our beliefs so they
>>not only don't label but want to sneak the DNA Frankenstein food in on us.
>>so I am not saying every one has to have the same ideals. its just a
shame
>>that the USDA and friends not only don't care about our God but work
>>against many religions like Jews, Hindus,Moslems,vegetarians,and on and on
>>all those that have dietary laws. that's why I feel there is a place on
>>sanet for this kind of talk ..here . Lets put it on the table and see
what
>>other have to say. . Now they that love the darkness and want to keep us
>>all in the dark may not like this talk. I want to know what I am eating
>and
>>drinking and breathing and they want to keep us in the dark. IMHO you
>>notice how in the beginning when they first started releasing DNA altered
>>stuff their was public talk most all against it but what did the USDA do.
>>They stopped the public input and just started releasing stuff not caring
>>about what the people thought and not only that hiding their wickedness.
>
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:56:02 -0400
>From: David Drexler <dtele@surfsouth.com>
>Subject: Re: Truth & Belief
>
>AMEN!!! AHMEN
>
>mike richardson wrote:
>
>> Excuse me for interupting, but wouldn't a better forum for religious
>> debate be better served by a newsgroup FOR religious debate? I would
>> think that a newsgroup/forum on sustainable agriculture and like
>> subjects is not the best place for an on-going debate such as the one
>> refererenced. There seems to be a lot of this religious debating on
>> sanet that we have to delete through to find posts on the subjects we
>> came to this forum for.
>>
>> Son of Richard
>>
>> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
>> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the
command
>> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest".
>> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
>> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest".
>>
>> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
>> http://www.sare.org/htdocs/hypermail
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:27:47 -0700
>From: Misha <mgs23@pacbell.net>
>Subject: Re: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases
>
>Howdy, all--
>
>Lon wrote:
>
>>Comment: I can't prove it just from this article, but this material sounds
>>very much like it was bred by traditional methods, not Genetic
>Manipulation.
>
>In response to:
>
>>STORY LEAD:
>>ARS Releases New Soybean Disease Defenses
>>
>>-----------
>>ARS News Service
>>Agricultural Research Service, USDA
>>Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov
>>August 26, 1999
>>-----------
>>
>>A new soybean variety and a germplasm line that fight off some major crop
>>diseases have been released by Agricultural Research Service scientists.
>ARS
>>is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency.
>>
>>Research geneticist Jeffrey M. Tyler of ARS' Crop Genetics and Production
>>Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed the new variety, called
>>Bolivar, in cooperation with the Mississippi Agricultural and Forestry
>> Experiment Station, Mississippi State, Miss.
>
>
>Lon, you anticipated my question. Some of these ARS releases are
>fuzzy on that point. Is that a trend, in your experience, in this
>particular information source--to gloss over that? Do we have any
>evidence that it's a deliberate trend, or just sloppy reportage?
>
>My guess was that "germplasm line" meant a bred line, not a spliced one.
>
>
>peace
>misha
>
>
>
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command
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>
>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:49:43 -0700
>From: Misha <mgs23@pacbell.net>
>Subject: Probiotics for the troops
>
>Howdy, all--
>
>Given the state of general crankiness that's been looming over our
>little virtual circle lately, like the summer fog over the Outer
>Sunset here in SF, I offer the following, in the service and support
>of sustainable agriculture. Humor promotes soil health.
>
>Make my day, someone--demand my peer-reviewed citations. :^>
>
>May these increase the EVMGSQ (Experimentally Verifiable Mean Good
>Spirits Quotient) of those who read them.
>
>Some of these are earthy, so those with snootier (dis-embodied,
>un-soiled) humor muses should hit the delete key now and go back to
>chuckling at the restrained witticisms of George Will or the cynical
>snipings of Maureen Dowd.
>
>'^D
>
>
>peace
>misha
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> The following definitions are from the Washington Post Style
>> Invitational (a weekly contest for readers). The idea of this
>> one is simply to redefine words from the dictionary - no added
>> or changed letters.
>>
>> Abdicate - v. To give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach.
>>
>> Carcinoma - n. A valley in California, notable for its heavy smog.
>>
>> Esplanade - v., to attempt an explanation while drunk.
>>
>> Willy-nilly - adj., impotent.
>>
>> Flabbergasted - adj., appalled over how much weight you have gained.
>>
>> Negligent - adj., describes a condition in which you
>>absent-mindedly answer the door in your nightie.
>>
>> Lymph - v. To walk with a lisp.
>>
>> Gargoyle - n., an olive-flavored mouthwash.
>>
>> Bustard - n., a very rude Metrobus driver.
>>
>> Coffee - n., a person who is coughed upon.
>>
>> Flatulence - n., the emergency vehicle that picks you up after you
>>are run over by a steamroller.
>>
>> Balderdash - n., a rapidly receding hairline.
>>
>> Semantics - n., pranks conducted by young men studying for the
>>priesthood, including such things as gluing the pages of the
>>priest's prayer book together just before vespers.
>>
>> Rectitude - n., the formal, dignified demeanor assumed by a
>>proctologist immediately before he examines you.
>>
>> Marionettes - n., residents of Washington D.C. who have been
>>jerked around by the mayor.
>>
>> Oyster - n., a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddish
>>expressions.
>>
>> Circumvent - n., the opening in the front of boxer shorts.
>>
>> and...
>>
>> The Washington Post's "Style Invitational" asked readers to
>> take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding,
>> subtracting or changing one letter, and supply a new definition.
>>
>> Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly.
>>
>> Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of
>>obtaining sex.
>>
>> Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high. . .
>>
>> Tatyr: A lecherous Mr. Potato Head.
>>
>> Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the
>>recipient who doesn't get it.
>>
>> Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.
>>
>> Hipatitis: Terminal coolness.
>>
>> Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease.
>>
>> Burglesque: A poorly planned break-in. (See: Watergate)
>>
>> Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these
>>really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and
>>it's like a serious bummer.
>>
>> Glibido: All talk and no action.
>>
>> Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when
>>they come at you rapidly.
>>
>> Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a refund from the IRS, which
>>lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Michele Gale-Sinex
>Communications manager
>Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison
>http://www.wisc.edu
>UW voice mail: 608-262-8018
>Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH)
>Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>This is a mystery, and I don't like mysteries. They give me a bellyache,
>and I've got a beauty right now. --Capt. James T. Kirk
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
>http://www.sare.org/htdocs/hypermail
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:16:15 -0400 (EDT)
>From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@metalab.unc.edu>
>Subject: Re: Irradiated food
>
>On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Tom Smith wrote:
>
>> If you don't like the prospect of eating infected meat, which is the
>> principle reason given for supporting Irradiation, then DON'T EAT IT. The
>
>Its all about _local_ meat production on small-medium sized family farms
>for _local_ sales: carefully controlled quality production; no middleman
>(other than a coop of some sort, possibly), no storage, no long distance
>shipping. Certified organic, non certified organic transitional or
>conventional - customers live close enough to the producers to easily
>ascertain for themselves the quality of the farmer's product through
>direct contact or word of mouth. I see networks (food circles, fertile
>crescent concept) of producers and marketing coops serving overlapping
>regions providing quality meat from coast to coast. Its possible and
>should happen even if a a new, alternative, nationwide (I'd include
>Canada) network of regional marketing networks has to be built from the
>ground up.
>
>> human body was not designed to eat meat, even organic, free-range animal
>> meats. And the crap they are using to feed animals these days--including
>> sewage sludge--makes the problem much that worse, and would not be
>addressed
>> by irradiation. Besides that, cattle farming is one of the greatest
>sources
>> of global warming, both in terms of clear cut rainforests and the gases
>they
>> emit.
>
>The methane problem would cease to exist if all farms would recycle their
>manure using a carefully planned system of direct land application or
>composting for application on field or row crop. For factory farms with
>excessive quantities of manure, composting it to produce a product
>suitable for a variety of farming industries could become a reality with a
>little R&D. In coastal NC where there are so many hog farms, composted
>manure could be used to grow timber bamboo, hemp for paper and cloth,
>cotton, paulownia, ...... even kudzu (ducking and running). In fact I'd
>bet that crops like bamboo and river birch could utilize irrigation with
>highly dilute manure slurry as part of a composting system to convert
>raw manure to a safe and valuable fertilizer. Sluice the pig manure out
>over acres of kudzu planted on gentle slope. Harvest the kudzu by baling
>or grinding and pelletizing for animal feed or to add as biomass to more
>manure to be composted. Collect the excess runoff at bottom of slope
>behind swales or dams for further composting, later to be added as
>bioactivator to piles of fresh manure to be composted.
>
>
>
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:18:10 -0700
>From: RALPH COLE <RCOLE@theitgroup.com>
>Subject: Organic feed grains
>
>Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast
>or mid-atlantic region? I only know of one place in Wisconsin for this,
and
>that's a bit far from Tennessee. The local feed mills don't have much
>motivation to supply organic feeds.
>
>Thanks,
>Ralph
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:58:03 -0400
>From: Andy Clark <aclark@nal.usda.gov>
>Subject: REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette
>
>Colleagues,
>
>I rarely have occasion to step in and play referee. Sadly, I do so now. I
>have received e-mails and phone calls asking me to intervene.
>
>First order of business is to maintain civility. Please do so.
>
>Secondly, let's keep on topic. This is a list for discussions of
>sustainable agriculture. Please focus on sustainable agriculture in your
>discussions. If you want to take the discussion off the list and continue
>it privately, that's standard practice if the content is not of interest to
>all subscribers.
>
>Victoria Mundy has offered to host a (temporary) list to continue this
>discussion. I'll paste her message below. That discussion was to begin
>August 26. See below for details.
>
>Finally, when replying to a message, please cut and paste relevant parts of
>the previous message(s) rather than including all of the text from all of
>the messages in the thread. I'll be glad to help anyone who is not sure
how
>to do this.
>
>Thanks for your cooperation!. I get lots of very positive feedback about
>sanet!
>
>See below for the Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion.
>
>Andy
>_____________________________________________________
>Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion
>
>Victoria Mundy (toria@pop.uky.edu)
>Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:47:42 -0400
>
>Apologies for cross posting......
>
>Some of us on SANET are going to hold an off-list discussion of what the
>scriptures of different religions have to say about agriculture. If you
>would like to join us, please send me an e-mail off list and I'll add your
>name to the mailings. Thanks to those who have already responded.
>(toria@pop.uky.edu)
>
>This conversation will be limited to August 26-Sept. 1, so that we don't
>get a whole new listserv!
>
>You do not have to be a religious scholar by any stretch of the imagination
>(I'm sure not) and you may simply listen although I hope everyone will
>contribute at least a little something. Any scripture from any religion is
>fair game. If your religion doesn't have scriptures, stories are welcome.
>
>We will simply be comparing what the different writings and stories say,
>NOT in any way discussing which is better or more true or more worthy. The
>more the merrier, everyone is welcome who is willing to follow the basic
>ground rules of courtesy, respect, and non-judgmental listening.
>
>Hoping many will join us and looking forward to it,
>
>Victoria Mundy
>Dept. of Agronomy
>Lexington, KY 40546-0091
>606/257-2103
>_________________________________________________________
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:27:20 -0400
>From: John Lozier <jlozier@wvu.edu>
>Subject: Farmer's markets and street music
>
>This is Farmer's Market week. Who knew? It was announced on August 20th,
>and celebrated August 21-28 (see following story)
>
>Speaking of Farmer's Markets, when I played my harp at the market in Santa
>Cruz a couple of months back, there were other musicians there too. I got
>to thinking that there is a certain similarity in the "direct marketing"
>approach of farmers and street musicians. Plus, there is a cultural
>linkage between music and food, the idea of celebration.
>
>Musicians and others: can you tell about how music is made a part of the
>sustag movement in your area, at the farmers market or wherever?
>
>Jeff Ishee wants to write a book about farm markets. If you'll tell your
>stories, I might assemble them into a chapter for him about farm market
>street music.
>
>As noted before, I'm planning to be in Guelph October 20-23, for IFSA
>conference. How about an ad-hoc convocation of agri-musicians??
>
>John Lozier
>harper for harmony
>www.harpingforharmony.org
>
>>> Release No. 0345.99
>>>
>>> Andrew Hatch (202) 720-8998
>>> andrew.hatch@usda.gov
>>> Billy A. Cox (202) 720-8998
>>> billy.cox@usda.gov
>>>
>>>GLICKMAN ANNOUNCES NATIONAL FARMERS MARKET WEEK
>>>
>>> WASHINGTON, August 20, 1999--Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman
today
>>>proclaimed August 21-28 as National Farmers Market Week.
>>>
>>> "Farmers markets and roadside stands have always been a way for
>>>Americans to stay in touch with our heritage and our roots," said
>Glickman.
>>>"Today, farmers markets are also critical to the success of American
>>>agriculture by allowing small farmers to sell their fresh produce
directly
>>>to
>>>consumers. At USDA, we work hard to increase awareness among farmers and
>>>consumers about the convenience and value of farmers markets."
>>>
>>> USDA works closely with state departments of agriculture encouraging
>>>the
>>>increased development of farmers markets to assist the small grower.
>>>Particular emphasis is placed on minority farmers and providing access to
>>>fresh fruits and vegetables to the urban, under-served consumer. One way
>>>USDA
>>>is accomplishing these goals is through the USDA-operated farmers market
>>>which
>>>is held weekly at department headquarters.
>>>
>>> USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service works with states to encourage
>>>market growth, while the Food and Nutrition Service helps needy families
>>>gain
>>>access to healthy produce. Food stamp recipients can use their benefits
>at
>>>most farmers markets, as can many participants in the Women, Infants, and
>>>Children program.
>>>
>>> The number of farmers markets in the United States has grown
>>>dramatically in recent years. USDA's 1998 farmers market directory lists
>>>2,746 farmers markets, up from 2,410 in 1996 and 1,755 in 1994, when USDA
>>>began collecting the data. Sales at farmers markets will total $1
billion
>>>this year, with most of the money going directly to small family farmers.
>>>
>>> Information on farmers markets, including the National Directory of
>>>Farmers Markets, can be obtained on the web at
>>>www.ams.usda.gov/farmersmarkets
>>>or by calling 800-384-8704.
>>>
>>> #
>>
>>Linda Elswick
>>Washington Representative
>>Community Food Security Coalition
>>
>>
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:57:50 -0500
>From: "Updike, Kim" <kupdike@aipc.com>
>Subject: RE: Organic feed grains
>
>Ralph:
>
>Do you have the facility to store some grain in bulk? Your best bet may be
>to contact your local extension center and see if there is a farmer in your
>area who is interested in Organic production. You may be able to contract
>with him personally. Don't stop with the local office either - ask them
>for a contact at the state level. Someone should be able to put you in
>contact with an organic grower. I know there are some in SE Missouri.
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at:
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:22:04 -0400
>From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov
>Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1252
>
>Subject: CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE, GAINESVILLE,FL., 09-09-99
>
>
>
>
>LAST CHANCE FOR GREAT ROOM RATES AT THE UNIVERSITY CENTRE HOTEL,
>GAINESVILLE, FL., (352-371-3333) IS AUGUST 25, 1999
>
>Included in this email is the SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT of the most recent
>program for the CLIMATE CHANGE, PEST CONTROL AND AGRICULTURE
>CONFERENCE that will be held on September 9, 1999 at the UNIVERSITY
>CENTRE HOTEL, GAINESVILLE, FL. (This hotel has transportation to and
>from the Gainesville airport. Just call 352-371-3333 for pickup once
>you arrive at the airport.)
>
>7:00-8:00 REGISTRATION
>
>8:15-8:35
>WELCOME
>
>John Lombardi, President, University of Florida*, Gainesville, FL
>
>Andrew Manale, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C.*
>Agriculture and Climate Change: Beyond Adaptation
>
>John Gordon, Chair, Food and Resource Economics Department,
>University of Florida, Gainesville, FL
>
>
>8:35-9:25
>THE STATE OF CLIMATE CHANGE: POLICY AND RESEARCH
>
>David Zilberman, University of California, Berkeley CA
>Climate Change: Economic Impacts and Possibilities for Agriculture.
>
>Ujjayant Chakravorty, Emory University, HI
>The Economics and Politics of Climate Change: International Issues
>
>
>9:25-10:40
>CLIMATE CHANGE AND FLORIDA
>
>Clyde Kiker, (Moderator) University of Florida, Gainesville, FL
>Climate Change: An Overview
>
>Jim O'Brien, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL
>Climate Variability and Agriculture over the United States
>
>Hartwell Allen, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL and
>Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture
>CO2, Climate Change and Southeast Agricultural Crops
>
>Janaki Alavalapati, School of Forest Resources and Conservation,
>Gainesville, FL
>Forestry and the Economics of Carbon Sequestration in Florida
>
>10:40-10:50
>BREAK
>
>10:50-12:15
>CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL
>
>Andrew Paul Guiterrez, University of California, Berkeley, CA
>The Disruption of Natural and Biological Control by Climate Change
>
>Dave Lincoln, University of South Carolina, Columbia, SC
>Consequences of Global Change for Insect Pests
>
>Paul Jepson, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR
>Impacts of Climate Change on Pesticide Use and Pesticide Impacts
>
>12:15-2:00
>LUNCH SPEAKER
>
>Carol Browner*
>Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C.
>
>2:00-3:15
>CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL
>
>Matthew Ayers, Dartmouth College,
>Title Unconfirmed to Date
>
>James Bunce, USDA/ARS,Washington, D.C.
>Climate Change and Weed Control
>
>3:15-3:30
>BREAK
>
>3:30-5:00
>CLIMATE CHANGE, AGRICULTURE AND CARBON SEGUESTRATION
>
>Rattan Lal, Ohio State University, Columbus, OH
>Soil Management and Carbon Sequestration: A Science Perspective
>
>Andy Schmitz and Charles Moss, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL
>and Chris Dumas, University of North Carolina, Wilmington, NC The
>Economics of Carbon Sequestration
>
>Bruce McCarl, Texas A&M, College Station, TX
>The Economics of Climate Change in Agriculture: A Synthesis.
>
>5:00-5;30
>DISCUSSION
>
>5:30-6:30
>RECEPTION
>*Unconfirmed
>
>FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE CONFERENCE REFER TO OUR WEB-SITE
> THAT WILL BE UPDATED ON 08-24-99
>
> http://kierkegaard.ifas.ufl.edu/climatechange.html
>
>
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>
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>
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> University of Florida
> POB 110240
> GAINESVILLE, FL 32611-0240
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:13:19 EDT
>From: MariavHM@aol.com
>Subject: Save the Date--December 2-3, 1999
>
>Regional Summit: The Future of Our Food and Farms
>December 2-3, 1999
>Philadelphia, PA
>
>Concerned about food, farming and hunger prevention in the Delaware Valley?
> Plan to attend "The Future of Our Food and Farms" regional summit on
>December 2-3, 1999, at the Radisson Hotel Philadelphia International
>Airport.
> "The Future of Our Food and Farms" is a regional summit to promote
>agriculture, learn about trends in food distribution and find ways to
>reduce hunger. The conference is designed to educate and encourage
>networking among those involved in the production, distribution and
>consumption of food in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
>Who should attend: Farmers, food industry professionals, government
>officials, advocates for hunger prevention and consumers.
>
>
>For more information, contact The Farmers' Market Trust, 215-568-0830, ext.
>13 or 800-417-9499. e-mail: foodfarm@libertynet.org. Fax: 215-568-0882
>
>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:54:11 -0500
>From: Dan Anderson <aslan@uiuc.edu>
>Subject: faith and truth continued
>
>Fellow Seekers:
>
>
>I can imagine there are many on this list who are going to groan at the=
> sight of yet another post dealing with the religion question, but I can't=
> help myself. I'm finding it one of the more interesting threads we've
seen=
> in a while. I think it's very appropriate to explore the potential=
> spiritual aspects of science and agriculture. I was especially impressed=
> with Dennis' observation that science in America has been elevated to
>dogma=
> (a religion in itself) and that is the reason we are the only country=
> debating evolution vs creation. I would modify that to say that science
>has=
> been elevated to dogma throughout the whole world, but America is the
only=
> country where Christians are still strong enough or free enough to argue=
> the point.=20
>
>
>What I don't understand is the assumption that faith and the acceptance of=
> God and absolute truth have to result in the end of critical thinking. I=
> imagine the whole wing of the Jesuit priesthood, men of faith who somehow=
> manage to think their way through numerous PhDs, scoff at this notion.
>Many=
> of our most famous scientists from long ago made huge advances in
thinking=
> despite the fact that they were devout Christians. The consensus of the=
> scientists who have contributed to this thread seems to be that those who=
> believe in absolute truth have skipped ahead to the end of the book (the=
> wrong book) to read the last page and then in laziness put the book down.
>I=
> want to suggest that the acceptance of the existence of God and absolute=
> truth is a starting point, a presupposition, just like belief in no God
>and=
> no absolute truth is a presupposition. I would also argue that the blind=
> acceptance of the latter presupposition is just as non-scientific as the=
> blind acceptance of the former. Neither can be proven or disprove. Both=
> have to be accepted by faith as true. Secular scientists don't believe in=
> God because they don't want to believe in God, not because the
>"hypothesis"=
> of God has been rejected scientifically.=20
>
>
>As a Christian, I can spend my whole life using the tools of science to=
> investigate how the world works, think just as critically about=
> agriculture/biological processes and get just as far down the road as a=
> secular scientist/thinker. Where Christian presuppositions do "inhibit"
my=
> thinking is in the moral/ethical/social realm. I believe there is right
>and=
> wrong. I believe God gave us rules for living and relating to one
another.=
> I accept these rules by faith, but believe they are also logical and work=
> when people understand and adhere to them. These rules provide boundaries=
> to behavior, not boundaries to thinking. I would suggest that such moral=
> rules are inherent to a sustainable agriculture. Sustainable agriculture
>is=
> agriculture with social and environmental boundaries that will have to=
> based on some moral imperative. Science alone is ill equipped to provide=
> such imperatives. It gets too bogged down in the variation and the=
> pseudo-moral obsession with not offending ANYone.=20
>
>
>Modern ag has been dominated by scientific application without moral=
> boundaries. Ag development in the western world has been guided by the
>sole=
> ethic of Increased Production (money). Now we're trying to justify the=
> expansion of that to developing countries with a "Feed the World" cause.=
> Believe me, money is still at the heart of it. We need additional rules
>for=
> behavior if we're going to do this without destroying the earth and=
> ourselves in the process. For rules to work they have to come from a
>higher=
> authority. They must be imposed from outside ourselves (and that includes=
> our science). Thus the need for God.=20
>
>
>
>
>
>
><bold>Dan Anderson
>
></bold>Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program
>
>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>
>Dept. of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences
>
>W-503 Turner Hall
>
>1102 S. Goodwin
>
>Urbana, IL 61801 MC-047
>
>217/333-1588
>
>217/333-7370 fax
>
>aslan@uiuc.edu
>
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253
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