Wilson, Dale wrote:
> > Shame on you for saying, "your vision of "organic" agriculture
> > is social and political, not biological."
> My point is that one of the big drivers behind "alternative", "organic", and
> "sustainable" (depending on the definition of sustainable) agriculture is
> social and political. For example
> Roberto wrote:
> > Perhaps Greg's point is better expressed as follows:
> > organic production can only be done by real persons
> > (who are biological entities) and not by legal constructs
> > like corporations (which are as artificial as synthetic
> > chemicals and pesticides).
> I can assure you and Roberto that "real people" do the work in companies
> like Monsanto, Pioneer, Novartis, Bayer, etc., not that these companies have
> any interest in producing "organic" crops. Of course, some "companies" do
> have an interest. These are "industrial", "chemical" farmers (falsely
> characterized IMO) whose companies are mainly successful family farms. This
> tendency to dehumanize your opponents is disturbing (but very understandable
> in a political sense).
> So, if someone like that is successful producing 100 acres of certified
> organic onions at a shot and packing them with efficient infrastructure, is
> that a problem? To a lot of people this IS a problem because of social and
> political issues. These issues are real, and should be discussed as
> political and social issues.
> Alex wrote:
> > Please to note that we are the ones who have preserved the
> > real form of traditional agriculture through the past 60 years
> > or so.
> That sounds like a social issue to me.
> > all the money -hungry yobs want to get a piece of the action
> So it is at root an us-them kind of thing? What if those "yobs" are just
> "real people" trying to make a living? What you are saying is SATURATED
> with politics.
> > And I'll take that $4/hour. It'll be twice what I make now working 80
> > hours/week, 9 months/year.
> Suppose I do genuine organic agriculture better than you, hire 20 people and
> drive you out of business. Does that make me evil? It does bring up
> ethical issues of capitalism. But those need to be stated clearly, not
> conflated and continually sold as a biological problems.
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