Re: Deserves a profit?

Lon J. Rombough (lonrom@hevanet.com)
Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:43:28 -0800

30 years ago in college I heard many of these same arguments. I got tired
of them then, and they aren't any more interesting now. No system works
worth a damn unless the people in it do. When people take responsibility
for their actions and put the other person first, the "system" works, no
matter WHAT it is.
Now, can we please go back to discussion of actual sustained agriculture
techniques?

----------
>From: Roberto Verzola <rverzola@phil.gn.apc.org>
>To: dan.worley@mindless.com
>Subject: Re: Deserves a profit?
>Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999, 11:08 AM
>

>
>The capitalism vs. socialism discussion is very relevant to this list,
>as I explain below, and I'd like to pursue it further:
>
> > And for those who think socialism is a better way than capitalism, I
> >think you can now purchase an airline ticket to Cuba; one way.
>
>Socialism -- Cuban or Russian or Chinese style -- is not the only
>alternative to capitalism. There is a growing body of literature
>worldwide which represents a range of alternatives which does not
>subscribe to the Marxist-Leninist principles of Cuba, etc. For want of
>a better term, I'd call them the Green alternatives. They reject the
>highly monopolistic "free" market approach of capitalism as well as
>the centrally-planned "people's" dictatorship of socialism. You can't
>have missed these...
>
>The Green alternatives differ from the socialist one in several ways
>at least:
>- we prefer decentralized to centralized approaches, and consider the
>community as important a locus of human activity as the nation, if not
>more;
>- we recognize the spiritual as much as the material aspects of
>reality;
>- we don't look at nature simply as raw material for production but as
>our common ecological home with other living things.
>
>>From the Green viewpoint, socialism and capitalism are two social
>expressions of what might be called industrialism, which is focused on
>large-scale material production in pursuit of progress.
>
>This discussion is very relevant to ecological agriculture, because
>industrialism approaches agriculture in the same way it approaches the
>manufacturing industries. In doing so, it misses the core difference
>between industry and agriculture.
>
>Industry involves transforming raw materials into finished goods
>through the application of human labor (often enhanced by machines).
>Industry is really about dead matter. If the raw material is alive, it
>often has to be killed before it becomes suitable for the industrial
>process. Typical operations include: cutting, sawing, melting,
>punching, etc.
>
>Agriculture is about living matter, which goes through its own process
>of living growth independent of human intervention. The farmer's role,
>unlike that of the worker, is simply to enhance, take care, support,
>etc. a living process. Industrial agriculture applies to living
>processes methods which are suitable for dead matter and therefore
>runs into all kinds of problems. This industrialist approach to
>agriculture is a common feature of both capitalism and socialism.
>Genetic engineering is a further development of this industrialist
>approach to agriculture.
>
>As for Cuba and the U.S.A.: it is true that more Cubans want to go to
>the US than vice versa. But the comparison is somewhat unfair because
>Cuba has been a target of a cruel economic embargo for decades and can
>only rely on its own limited resources. The embargo, coupled with the
>mistakes of the Cuban socialist regime (like relying on the former
>USSR and on sugar exports instead of building a self-sufficient
>economy), puts the Cuban people through a lot of hardships which many
>understandably want to escape from. The U.S., on the other hand,
>benefits from American control over huge resources outside their own
>borders. Through their unsustainable use of these resources, many
>Americans artificially, though temporarily, enjoy a better life than
>others. If Americans had to rely purely on their own resources as much
>as the Cubans do, the American smugness about their superior standard
>of living might dissipate quickly.
>
>In fact, the decades of U.S. blockade against Cuba has forced the
>Castro regime to adopt "Greenish" policies in some areas. It would be
>interesting how things would turn out if a socialist country like Cuba
>abandons socialism but transforms itself into a Green society rather
>than back to capitalism.
>
>Finally, on democracy and the "free" market: at the core of today's
>global capitalism are the corporations, many of which are economically
>larger than most of the world's nations. Internally, a corporation is
>as top-down and dictatorial as you can imagine. Internally too, the
>corporation is a centrally-planned economy, not a free market. There
>are more similarities between a corporation and a one-party State than
>initially meets the eye.
>
>Regards to all,
>
>Roberto Verzola
>Philippine Greens
>
>
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