Re: Organic Farming Economics Responce

Bargyla Rateaver (brateaver@earthlink.net)
Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:01:47 -0800

Ms Sneed was "lucky" to be able to use a large empty field right beside the
prison. She never suggested that prisoners be sent to farms to learn how to grow
food. She tried to find a way to give them ssomething productive to do, and
realized the pleasure they would get from seeing a plant they grew by
themselves--something creative, something productive from their own hands. Most
of them would never have even a yard to use, but some would go on and utilize
the new skill. But at least it was good for them to work thiss way, and they
were never required, just offered the chance. It was a wonderful idea and helped
many in several ways. You should just hear her and see her slides.
==================

Shoshanah.Inwood@oberlin.edu wrote:

> --On Fri, Mar 12, 1999 4:40 PM -0500 "Shoshanah Inwood"
> <ssmi9636@mercury.cc.oberlin.edu> wrote:
>
> > Thank-you Michael for so eloquently explaining Catherine Sneeds program at
> > the San Francisco prison. I believe her program is a model that can be
> > expanded and applied throughout the country.
> >
> > Loren allow me to respond to your comments and expand on my initial
> e-mail:
> My initial e-mail was written in very simplistic terms and ideas for a
> number of reasons. I was looking to gage the responsiveness of participants
> in the field of organic/sustainable agriculture. I am fully aware that just
> stating that prisoners should be put to work on organic farms is an
> idealistic statement that leads to endless questions: such as how many and
> what types of prisoners should be allowed to work on farms and how to ensure
> farmer, community and prisoner safety.
> I was looking to see how receptive people are to this idea especially the
> farmers, where is their level of convertibility at?
>
> All one needs to do is read a newspaper to see how high recidivism rates
> are. This indicates that the present criminal justice system is not
> effective at deterring crime or "rehabilitating" prisoners. You object to
> supporting those who have chosen a "criminal lifestyle", we need to ask why
> have they chosen that life style. And if this is the only means of survival
> they know, then it is logical to conclude that they will return to this
> lifestyle once released from prison unless they are presented with other
> alternatives. I am curious why you think that training prisoners to do farm
> labor is so wrong, especially if it is non-exploitive. By boycotting
> products made by prisoners you deny their existence and their right to be
> productive citizens. People who are in prison have broken the law and
> usually deserve to go to prison. But once they aquire the label of
> "prisoner" do they automatically loose their humanity and all of their
> rights? And I might add that even if an individual is in prison they are
> still an American.
> >
> >> Many programs throughout the country involving prisoners growing
> food(such as Sneed's project in San Francisco) donate a portion of the crop
> to soup kitchens, back to the community from which many of the prisoners
> came from. The prisoners are working to give something back to their
> community and are learning about responsibility and building marketable job
> skills. By working on farms, especially small organic farms prisoners would
> have the opportunity to learn about marketing, accounting and advertising,
> giving them experiences, which can open up worlds to them never before
> known.
> >
> > Why would consumers not be told about who was growing there food? I
> > would think people would appreciate knowing that the food they are buying
> > is also an investment in their community. To reduce the anger and reduce
> the crime rate, isn't this one of the major concerns in almost every city
> and town in America? I have been a member of many different types of co-ops
> and one of their commonalties is to promote and support improving local
> communities: socially, politically and economically. Prison labor would be
> helping local growers to increase their crop yield and their economic
> survival.
>
> The future is a rapidly changing place, everyday we learn more about the
> agri-chemical/life science companies genetically engineered products, along
> with the effects of herbicides and pesticides. The challenge to organic
> farming is to make it more cost effective so that it can be marketed and
> readily available to a greater number of people at a lower cost. Yes this
> is our capitalistic society. These are the confines we must operate within.
> Sometimes you play with the bosses rules in order to win the game
>
> Shoshanah Inwood
> > On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Loren Muldowney wrote
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------
> >>
> >> I may never stop screaming.
> >>
> >> I specifically boycott all goods made by prison labor, since it is
> >> exploitative of not only of prisoners, but more importantly of those
> >> working people who have NOT turned to crime as a lifestyle.
> >>
> >> The organic agriculture paradigm was created by shunning short-term
> >> economic theory. I don't think this will ever fly, if the consumers
> >> know about it; it would have to be kept from them intentionally. Since
> >> the point of organic marketing is to make full information available to
> >> the consumer, this lovely scenario would be better pursued in the
> >> "conventional" agriculture sphere. I just heard they are cutting the
> >> tails off of dairy cows for "economic" reasons, so probably they
> >> wouldn't bat an eye at this suggestion either.
> >>
> >> Not only that, but some our more sleazy mall stores have been using the
> >> "made in america" marketing, which appeals to those who deliberately
> >> support working non-criminal fellow citizens, to label goods made by
> >> prisoners as "made in america." It is a "solution" which "works" right
> >> at this moment, because many people are simply unaware that it is going
> >> on. Most people currently believe it to be illegal, being so clearly
> >> repugnant a concept.
> >
> >
> >
> >> I can't wait to post this incredible suggestion at the natural foods
> >> coop and see everybody mobilize for the boycott.
> >
>
> >
> >> > Much of the prison population is illiterate, farm work is a learned low
> >> > skill profession that does not require literacy. Individuals would be
> >> > outside growing food which would provide emmence psychological and self
> >> > esteem benefits as well as practical job skills for their futures after
> >> > prison.
> >>
> >> Sounds like a great idea, if you propose that these people should be
> >> taught to grow their own organic food for their own consumption. They
> >> would learn all the skills and improve their diets.
> >>
> >> > What happens when
> >> > they are released? How are they any better off?
> >>
> >> Then when they are released, they will know enough to begin organic
> >> farming, and ride the crest of this wonderful wave of commerce. Surely
> >> that's what you mean?
> >>
> >
> >
> > > > I'm curious if there are any farmers out there, who
> >> > contract out to prisoners, and how open growers are to this idea.
> >>
> >> I suppose we'd all like to know that! Well, here's one more reason to
> >> only buy from people we know personally. So much for the integrity of
> >> commerce.
> >>
> >> Just when I think I can no longer be surprised.....
> >>
> >> Loren Muldowney
> >>
> >
>
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