mbox-29: Pesticides in manures (including humanure, that'd be your manure and my manure)

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Comments about the 'demon sludge' resonate also in the question about =
pesticides in manures. Not only are pesticides applied to manures as =
vector controls, the parasiticides and antibiotics are carried through =
the animals and into the manures also.

One view of synthetic chemicals in manures, which also is applied to =
heavy metals, is the doctrine of "absolution in the compost pile", i.e, =
the view that the highly active microbial conditions in proper =
composting cause all (or most) evil materials to be deconstructed and =
reformed into harmless humified matter.

Some say this applies also in soils; that good microbial activity will =
break down or neutralize 'most any toxin'. And yet, those in the =
'bioremediation biz' insist that things are not so simple; that it =
requires careful monitoring and perhaps even special cultures to achieve =
the blessed 'none detected' reading back from the lab...

It seems obvious to me that the debate about sludge in organic =
agriculture extends also to animal manures, although the manures being =
the product of more controlled conditions should be more predictable and =
more manageable...

If organic is to be a prevailing standard of agriculture, occupying an =
increasing percentage of the marketplace, then more and more acres must =
come under organic production; if not then it matters little whether =
sludge or chemicalized manures are accepted, since organics will only =
occupy a small percentage of total acreage and 'conventional' =
agriculture the lion's share of the land...

It has been suggested that 'model' systems be put in place where human =
wastes and clean compostables are source-separated and kept apart from =
chemical/industrial waste streams. This should indeed be done.

There is a long history of problems with sludge and it will be some time =
before the weight of that history can be shrugged off. It would be very =
nice if the organic movement could find a way to use its symbolic power =
to dangle the carrot of organic acceptance to clean sludge streams; =
however, the only way I can see that happening is to have a multi-tier =
set of organic categories; indeed, the biggest problem I see with the =
National organic standards is their proposed monolithic character, and =
the necessity of everyone operating under one standard which many people =
both domestically and internationally find inadequate.

I do think it would be a step forward if an open national standard were =
established as a baseline, while allowing stricter standards by private =
sector certification organizations. That way, Demeter certification or =
OCIA certification would automatically include a USDA-Organic guarantee, =
as well as whatever other assurances they entail, and the door would be =
open for other certifications like Veganic-Organic or whatever. Any =
certifications would have to be at least as strict as USDA-Organic but =
could include other criteria like the use of special preparations or the =
avoidance of slaughterhouse and other animal wastes, etc.

USDA-Organic could include Clean-Stream Sludge as an acceptable =
material, while I would imagine the established certification =
organizations would probably hold off on accepting it while closely =
monitoring quality and consumer acceptance. The existence of several =
tiers of organic labels would allow the consumer to choose intelligently =
between different standards according to their views; what could be more =
American than that?

Meanwhile, those in the composting community who feel they can indeed =
turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, and 'bioremediate' everything from =
pesticides to pressure-treated wood, have a major burden of proof to =
meet, and a lot of fundamental education to do, to get their products =
accepted. Maybe some day they will succeed in convincing the =
agricultural community generally, and especially the skeptics within the =
organic community, that they really have mastered the art of turning =
contaminated feedstocks into good clean humus. Until then I will =
consider sludges and manures and composts made with them to be at least =
somewhat suspect.

BTW, more than thirty years ago my grandfather, a USDA agronomist, had a =
load of sludge delivered at his home for use on his lawn. After the =
cherry tomatoes were weeded out, all appeared well; later, he was warned =
by colleagues at USDA that there were high heavy metals in the sludge, =
and so there were no more sludge applications.

This is the kind of sludge story that still dogs the sludge issue. =
People have long memories and it takes a lot more than accusing the =
organic movement of not caring about the carbon cycle to overcome them. =
I will say this; sludge in a landfill may be N, P and K wasted, but we'd =
have to put alot of Carbon-rich sludge back into the earth to make up =
for all the petroleum, coal and natural gas we're pumping out of her.

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Comments about the 'demon sludge' resonate = also in the=20 question about pesticides in manures. Not only are pesticides applied to = manures=20 as vector controls, the parasiticides and antibiotics are carried = through the=20 animals and into the manures also.

One view of synthetic chemicals in manures, = which also=20 is applied to heavy metals, is the doctrine of "absolution in the = compost=20 pile", i.e, the view that the highly active microbial conditions in = proper=20 composting cause all (or most) evil materials to be deconstructed and = reformed=20 into harmless humified matter.

Some say this applies also in soils; that = good=20 microbial activity will break down or neutralize 'most any toxin'. = And=20 yet, those in the 'bioremediation biz' insist that things are not so = simple;=20 that it requires careful monitoring and perhaps even special cultures to = achieve=20 the blessed 'none detected' reading back from the lab...

It seems obvious to me that the debate about = sludge in=20 organic agriculture extends also to animal manures, although the manures = being=20 the product of more controlled conditions should be more predictable and = more=20 manageable...

If organic is to be a prevailing standard of=20 agriculture, occupying an increasing percentage of the marketplace, then = more=20 and more acres must come under organic production; if not then it = matters little=20 whether sludge or chemicalized manures are accepted, since organics will = only=20 occupy a small percentage of total acreage and 'conventional' = agriculture the=20 lion's share of the land...

It has been suggested that 'model' systems be = put in=20 place where human wastes and clean compostables are source-separated and = kept=20 apart from chemical/industrial waste streams. This should indeed = be=20 done.

There is a long history of problems with = sludge and it=20 will be some time before the weight of that history can be shrugged = off. =20 It would be very nice if the organic movement could find a way to use = its=20 symbolic power to dangle the carrot of organic acceptance to clean = sludge=20 streams; however, the only way I can see that happening is to have a = multi-tier=20 set of organic categories; indeed, the biggest problem I see with the = National=20 organic standards is their proposed monolithic character, and the = necessity of=20 everyone operating under one standard which many people both = domestically and=20 internationally find inadequate.

I do think it would be a step forward if an = open=20 national standard were established as a baseline, while allowing = stricter=20 standards by private sector certification organizations. That way, = Demeter=20 certification or OCIA certification would automatically include a = USDA-Organic=20 guarantee, as well as whatever other assurances they entail, and the = door would=20 be open for other certifications like Veganic-Organic or whatever. = Any=20 certifications would have to be at least as strict as USDA-Organic but = could=20 include other criteria like the use of special preparations or the = avoidance of=20 slaughterhouse and other animal wastes, etc.

USDA-Organic could include Clean-Stream = Sludge as an=20 acceptable material, while I would imagine the established certification = organizations would probably hold off on accepting it while closely = monitoring=20 quality and consumer acceptance. The existence of several tiers of = organic=20 labels would allow the consumer to choose intelligently between = different=20 standards according to their views; what could be more American than=20 that?

Meanwhile, those in the composting community = who feel=20 they can indeed turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, and 'bioremediate'=20 everything from pesticides to pressure-treated wood, have a major burden = of=20 proof to meet, and a lot of fundamental education to do, to get their = products=20 accepted. Maybe some day they will succeed in convincing the = agricultural=20 community generally, and especially the skeptics within the organic = community,=20 that they really have mastered the art of turning contaminated = feedstocks into=20 good clean humus. Until then I will consider sludges and manures and = composts=20 made with them to be at least somewhat suspect.

BTW, more than thirty years ago my = grandfather, a USDA=20 agronomist, had a load of sludge delivered at his home for use on his = lawn.=20 After the cherry tomatoes were weeded out, all appeared well; later, he = was=20 warned by colleagues at USDA that there were high heavy metals in the = sludge,=20 and so there were no more sludge applications.

This is the kind of sludge story that still = dogs the=20 sludge issue. People have long memories and it takes a lot more = than=20 accusing the organic movement of not caring about the carbon cycle to = overcome=20 them. I will say this; sludge in a landfill may be N, P and K = wasted, but=20 we'd have to put alot of Carbon-rich sludge back into the earth to make = up for=20 all the petroleum, coal and natural gas we're pumping out of = her.