Re: open pollinated corn

Greg & Lei Gunthorp (hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com)
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:51:26 -0500

Dale,
I think you are trying to head this contest back to the mythological world
of scientific experimentation. Productivity(or yield) does not pay the
bills. Its net income on real farm situations that pay the bills. For the
record, I think all this is nothing more than a good pissing contest. And I
know because I have been in my share of pissing contests. No one wins them.
If you want the results to be meaningful and used by farmers it needs to
be conducted under real world conditions by an unbiased farmer. I don't
know where you find that. I don't believe its possible to find any person
without some kind of bias. I'd also suggest you put a feeding component
into this trial. Lets give the true experts(pigs, sheep, cows, chickens,
etc) a chance to decide which corn they prefer and grow better on.
Best of luck,

-----Original Message-----
From: Wilson, Dale <WILSONDO@phibred.com>
To: 'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor' <aclark@plant.uoguelph.ca>;
sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu <sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu>
Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: open pollinated corn

>Ann,
>
>> 1. Let the results be expressed as NET economic returns
>
>I think we should explore all possible ways to express the results, but
>Chucks statement and my challenge had to do with yield.
>
>> let's make his hybrid a GE hybrid
>
>Let's let Pioneer sales agronomists pick the exact hybrid, but to keep this
>simple, let's use one hybrid, and one OP.
>
>> 2. Let each crop (hybrid and OP) be grown under optimal conditions -
>> for IT - which may not be the same - and let the input costs vary
>> accordingly.
>
>Trouble is, that would confound the results, and make it much harder to lay
>out the plots in a reasonable experimental design. As a compromise, I
would
>propose a 2 x 2 factorial experiment conducted as a split plot. Management
>would be the main plot factor, either Best-management-practices (BMP) for
>the OP or BMP for the hybrid. Variety (OP vs hybrid) would be the sub-plot
>factor. There would then be four treatments: 1) OP under BMP(OP), 2)
Hybrid
>under BMP(OP), 3) OP under BMP(hyb), and 4) Hybrid under BMP(hyb).
>
>What this would mean in practice, is that each location would, in a sense,
>conduct two trials, one using standard hybrid corn practices and one using
>practices optimal for the OP. We will need to work on the exact definition
>of the BMP factor and the important details of experimental design and
>layout.
>
>> 3. Let each crop compete under a range of growing environments - not
>> "low input" per se but on healthy (disease suppressive) and unhealthy
>> soils (as per Chuck's message; there is an increasingly alarming
>> range of journal lit on this very interesting topic), in dry and wet
>> conditions, etc. etc. This will let us test the robustness of the
>> genetics of the two corns.
>
>Absolutely! IMO, replication across environments is much more important
>than replication within environments. The more sites we can get the
better.
>If some cooperators can only offer one plot or strip for each of the four
>treatments, fine. We can accomodate that statistically. If some
>collaborators could only perform one kind of BMP instead of both, we can
>probably accomodate that too.
>
>> I can find a grower who has selected his own OP corn, here close to
>> Guelph, who might be able to contribute some seed. He came in and
>> spoke to our corn breeder recently.
>
>Variety selection is crucial to maximize the value of this experiment.
>Let's decide after we see where the sites are located. If we end up with a
>wide enough range of regions, we might want to use different pairs of
>varieties for the different regions.
>
>> I have been told by a knowledgeable and well respected plant breeder,
>> that had as much effort been expended in breeding OP corn as has gone
>> into hybrid corn, the yields would be as good.
>
>Three reasons why hybrids might be better in an absolute sense include:
>1. Line development efficiently unmasks deleterious genes.
>2. Heterosis may involve non-additive and non-Mendelian gene action.
>3. Open pollination precludes (because of pollen competition) selection
>against apical dominance, and resulting increased sink strength of ear
>shoots found in hybrid corn.
>
>Dale
>
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