Oh, heck, go away for a couple days, and look what happens. :^)
> > viagra's long term
> > effects remain to be seen-- IT'S ALL ABOUT THE DOLLAR!
> No, it's all about sex. People will go to almost any extreme for
> it. It's the evolutionary imperative.
Dale, I appreciate your willingness to speak for evolution, even
though I see things a bit differently. In my experience, "sex" is a
cultural construct as much as it is a "biological" or "evolutionary"
"imperative," and the sex and money seem to me to be particularly
conflated where this drug is concerned. However, your opinion on this
is as valid as any other individual's.
> I am surprised that you have reduced the whole subject of nitric
> oxide to Viagra. The discovery that nitric oxide is a cellular
> messenger is a good example of an advancement in fundamental
> understanding of nature. And I think this work may apply way beyond
> vascular signalling, even to plants and seed dormancy. The work
> that led to this was excellent!
Your viewpoint limited you from seeing what my query was. My query
was answered by several people on the list, so I am content to drop
this topic now. Particularly since Donna Fezler's response of last
week then reply of 10/26 was some of the best comment on this that
I've seen, and put things into perspective for me, even as I see
certain parts differently. I appreciated her elaborating on the
question I raised, about what men choose, or don't choose, to get
angry about. I see that as *extremely* related to sustainable ag...a
discussion for some long winter's evening yet to be.
> Concerning Viagra, I don't understand your hostility. Many men
> lose the ability to have erections as they age because of
> physiological and vascular dysfunction.
Without getting too autobiographical here, suffice it to say that I
don't consider erections a necessary part of menfolk's sexuality, nor
lack of them a "dysfunctional" state. This was something I learned
from men beloveds, BTW. So I'm likely to view the entire thing from a
very different perspective.
> You said:
> > Seems to me that what we really need are menfolk who feel
> > exactly their age, and carry the full diverse wisdom of it.
> I think that if older people find ways to have sex, good for them!
> If Viagra is part of that then that's fine. Is your attitude is
> tinged with some sort of puritanical/feminist "morality"? I just
> don't understand where you are coming from.
"Having" sex is not part of my mindscape...so we're likely to
approach this whole topic with very different thinking. For me
sexuality is not something one "has," and it does not necessarily
involve reproductive behavior. And it's not limited to nor defined
by the thrustings and gruntings of young folks.
As for "puritanical/feminist 'morality,'" Dale, kindly refrain from
caricaturing and labeling me out of your assumptions about me, or the
straw-man-burning mass-media-created categories that you fling in my
direction from time to time! It makes you appear reactionary, and it
attests to a level of intimacy between us which does not exist. You
have no way of knowing how I construct or express my morality, and I
am not inclined to share that with you. My work and views on safer
sex, responsible sexuality, sacred sexuality, alternative families,
alternative/fluid sexuality, mentoring of young people on responsible
sexual behavior, etc., are issues that I believe are related to
sustainability, but are not part of what I share in this virtual
Otherwise, I'd like to see this topic dropped. I made my query, I
got the answers I was looking for from the people who read what I
was asking and replied to that. I also got some wonderful
side-discussion with a number of people, as well as some amusing
Anybody who wants the 8 inches joke that Kate referred to can e-mail
me separately. And lest I offend the easily offended, I'll reiterate
here, as someone did privately, that earthy humor has been part of
agriculture ever since the first, ahem, plowing of the fields. But I
will not impose my Ole and Lena gene on people.
Just as I do not wish to have others impose theirs on me until they
know me well enough to know whether I appreciate it. If there's
anything I despise, it's people using this most sacred of human
interactions as a way to frighten others into discomfort or
submission to their will.
Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager
Center for Integrated Ag Systems
UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences
Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020
The cause of human sectarianism is not lack of
sympathy in thought, but in speech; and this
it is our not unambitious design to remedy.
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