sanet-mg-digest Friday, September 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 570
In this issue:
Re: Johnson Grass Control
Re: Jonson Grass
Re: Control Honeybee Mites or Weevils, etc. in Stored Wheat?
RE: Off: The Farmer's Wife
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:23:03 -0400
From: Alex McGregor <waldenfarm@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Johnson Grass Control
Gary Matson wrote:
> Pigs will not get rid of Johnson grass. We confined a couple of pigs with
> electric fence in a small area with Johnson grass rhizomes. They rooted the
> entire area up during our wet winter. The soil structure was
> demolished--compacted to a fare-thee-well, and the only thing that grew the
next
> season was Johnson grass. It has taken many years in our non-expanding
> (kaolinitic) clay soil to get some modicum of structure back. In my opinion,
> Roundup or something like it is the only reasonable way to rid an area of
> incredibly pernicious weeds like Johnson grass. That grass will push its way
> through heavy mulch fabric, grew up through 3 ft. of dense sawdust, can live
> through entire rainless California Central Valley summers, and each tiny
rhizome
> fragment can make an entire 7ft tall plant by mid summer.
>
> If Roundup supposedly has such terrible effects (something not borne out in my
> experience with it--I have thriving worm populations), is it not possible for
> some substance to be invented which will kill plants and then simply
decompose?
> I can see no reason not to use such a substance to be rid of a competitive
> organism like Johnson grass any more than I can see not to use a drug to
> eliminate parasitic worms from an animal (or human). I hardly know who to
> believe for information about Roundup. The organic folks are so extreme in
> their condemnation, and the company that makes it has no credibility at all.
I
> tried to get information about the test results that were submitted to the
state
> of California in support of registration, but was told they were 'proprietary
> information'. I would like to make an informed choice about this chemical,
but
> am forced to choose between two extremes for information. Unfortunately we
are
> several hours drive from a university library, so I cannot pore through
research
> results like I could while living the academic life.
The main problem I've found with Roundup is that glyphosates are very close,
molecularly, to a complex molecule which is a plant nutrient. Since plants
recognize
it as a nutrient, they absorb and transport it. This is why it is classed as a
systemic herbicide. The plant can't metabolize the glyphosate, so it stores it
in
tissue and it builds up.I'm just an ordinary farmer, but I got this information
from
Dr. Ivan Smith, a plant physiologist at Ohio U. during a class on Biointensive
farming. He talked about this in conjunction with site specific nutrient
absorption
of root hairs.
Another problem is that glyphosates aren't broken down in the soils as fast as
claimed. The lower the bioactivity, the longer it takes. I imagine a good deal
of
this is leaching into our water supplies.
> I market garden in a climate where Bermuda grass and Johnson grass are vicious
> weeds. I am trying to nearly eliminate tilling for many reasons. Partly
because
> our clay soil compacts so badly, partly because I grow perennials like herbs,
> partly because keeping the soil covered is so much better for the plants in
our
> extremely hot summers and high rainfall winters. And partly because I want to
> maintain permanent paths and small, intense, often-rotated and continuously
> cropped patches. Several species of worms keep the soil porous and dispose of
> the surface mulch pretty quickly. I currently use hay as the deep mulch, but
> it is hard to get weed-free hay, especially at a price under $160/ton. I find
> the weeds and weedy grasses germinating in the decaying hay in the fall to be
a
> problem for fall planted things going in following the summer crops. An
> ecologically benign herbicide is exactly what I need for my cropping system.
It
> would also make growing the mulch in place a lot more feasible in mild
climates
> like this.
>
> Gary Matson -- Near Redding, California
>
> Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote:
>
> > I've heard pigs will get rid of Johnson grass if they don't have rings. It
> > would be cheaper than tillage. If they structure it right the pigs might
> > even make some money instead of just spending money on fuel, iron, and
> > labor.
> > I think CROPP is still looking for organic hog farmers for an organic pork
> > marketing pool that they are starting.
> > Also, one of the organic growers in my area is using a machine that he
> > mounts on the front of the tractor to top all the weeds above the beans.
> > Its quite a strange looking contraption. He made it with 8 lawn mower
> > blades. He can at least try to break the weed seed cycle. Might help from
> > spreading the Johnson Grass farther.
> > My dad was talking the other day about how they grew soybeans before they
> > had herbicides. He said they used to put wheat in at the same time that
> > they planted the beans. The wheat being spring planted will die off by
> > early July and supposedly didn't hurt the beans. I've been thinking about
> > trying a small patch of RR beans using wheat and no herbicides next year.
> > I'm not organic, so at least that way I have a back up plan if the wheat
> > didn't work to keep the beans clean. Hopefully I won't have to use any
> > chemicals. Is that a sustainable approach? I had the dirtiest beans I've
> > ever seen this year trying reduced chemical applications. So herbicides
> > aren't fool proof either!
> > Best of luck,
> > Greg
> > Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork
> > LaGrange, Indiana (a stones throw from Ohio & Michigan)
> > hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com
> > visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sean McGovern <oeffa@mailbox.iwaynet.net>
> > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
> > Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 2:48 PM
> > Subject: Johnson Grass Control
> >
> > >Dear Sannet:
> > >
> > >Has anyone seen any research into Johnson Grass control for organic
> > >rotations? I've seen some tidbits about the alleopathic affects of clover,
> > >(but no leads on varieties) and repetitive winter tillage to expose and
> > >eventually kill root stock, but nothing that I would feel confident passing
> > >along.
> > >
> > >There is an OEFFA grower (probably several) who had a big problem with
> > >Johnson grass in Vinton Soybeans this year. Can anyone help with research
> > >leads on control without using herbicides? Or herbicides that might be
> > >allowable in a certified system?
> > >
> > >Thanks for your help. Please repond directly to the list so the responses
> > >will be a part of the archives.
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >
> > >Sean McGovern
> > >Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association
> > >PO Box 82234 Columbus Ohio 43202
> > >(ph) 614/267-3663
> > >(fx) 614/267-4763
> > >email: oeffa@iwaynet.net
> > >Visit OEFFA on the World Wide Web at www.greenlink.org/oeffa
> > >
> > >For OCIA/OEFFA Organic Certification services in Ohio, call OEFFA
> > >Certification Coordinator, Sylvia Upp at 419/853-4060 or fax 419/853-3022
> > >
> > >For OEFFA's Newsletter Submissions and Ads, call Newsletter Editor Holly
> > >Harman Fackler at 419/687-4761, fax at 419/687-8272, or email
> > ><wool@willard-oh.com>.
> > >
> > >Shipping Only- Parhelion Building, OEFFA, 2232 N Summit St, Columbus, Ohio
> > >43202
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
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>
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:29:12 -0500
From: Gordon Couger <gcouger@rfdata.net>
Subject: Re: Jonson Grass
> Re: the farmer with the elevated lawn mower blades
>
> I've often wondered if one could electrocute weeds that stuck up
> above the crop by driving through the field with a high-voltage wire
> set-up horizontally a couple of inches above the crop. 'Course,
> you'd want a pretty smooth field to do this so as to avoid zapping
> too much of the crop!
>
> Has anyone actually tried this sort of thing?
I have never tried it. I have seen the machine to do it. To cover a 10
swath it took a 100 hp tractor running a 10,000 volt alternator making
AC current. the machine was very expensive $30,000 if I remember
right. It could also be used for field weed control.
It was reported to work well on perennial plants getting a better kill than
steel but not as good as roundup.
Gordon
Gordon Couger gcouger@couger.com
Owner PRAG-L PRactical AGriculture List www.couger.com/prag-l
Stillwater, OK 405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:28:55 -0500
From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" <mgs@AAE.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Control Honeybee Mites or Weevils, etc. in Stored Wheat?
Yo, all--
Lloyd Kinder asked:
> Does anyone know how to repel or remove mites from honeybees? I
> hear that's what's decimating them. Do you suppose there's
> something that's made them more susceptible to mites in the first
> place? What could that be? Something toxic and artificial?
There was a fairly solid discussion recently (this calendar year, if
my memory isn't completely erased by breathing toxin-laden dust
earlier this week) on SANET of varroa mite in bees. Also, APIS
magazine used to be posted to the group, and I seem to recall a
varroa discussion a couple years ago as well.
Search the SANET archives on the term "varroa."
Last time I did this I got about 75 hits.
Good luck.
peace
misha
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager
Center for Integrated Ag Systems
UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences
Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020
http://www.wisc.edu/cias/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Salamanders are important. --Mister 3D
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:10:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John Lozier" <JLISTS@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Subject: RE: Off: The Farmer's Wife
Comments-on: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:12:29 -0400 (EDT)
Comments-of: "John Lozier" <JLISTS@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
This was sposed to go to the whole list, went just to Dale. Best.
***----------------------> Original Mail From <----------------------***
"John Lozier" <JLISTS@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
***------------------------------------------------------------------***
IMHO, the intervention required is to use taxes to price energy where
it should be, so as put transportation costs up where they could actually
influence prices. Make the markets bear the "true costs" of transportation.
On 09/24/98 at 10:03:36 Tom Armstrong said:
>On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Wilson, Dale wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> > We can't save the small family farm, we have to create an economic
>> > climate where it can come back.
>>
>> What kind of interventions do you have in mind?
>>
>> Dale Wilson
>The current trend to direct marketing, CSA's, and Farmers Markets is a
>step in the right direction. These options were not possible 10 years
>ago. I am afraid this is not enough. I believe we need (dreaded)
>subsidies geared towards helping small family farms.
>I think the ways things are done in some of the small european countries
>could serve as a model for sustainable ag in the US.
>Tom Armstrong toma@crl.com Sequera Ranch s.1892 San Gregorio, CA
>Barnyard Technology--- Ideas for tomorrow -> from yesterday's scrap.
> 4th -> 5th gen. on family farm. Can Ag Sustain?
> A ghost town fights its way back.. http://www.crl.com/~toma/
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