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Subject: Re:Chaos(formerly Re: American Home acquisition)
Author: A.Harris
Date: 5/09/98 05:08
Hi Jeff
I hear and respect where you are coming from. It is good to see people
acknowledging the fundamental importance and power of belief to shape what we
think. It is just unfortunate that our fellow rationalists, bless their souls,
believe that their beliefs are a rock solid empirically.
Just thinking aloud, the assertion of the primacy of spirit seems to me to come
close to a logical deduction from experience. My own experience is that I cannot
separate the spiritual from the rst of my physical,emotional, economic,
biological etc existence. In fact the whole notion of soul, spirit etc seems to
me to be built on rational deductions from experience and whole theologies have
been built on that basis.
It is also interesting to me that traditional beliefs that I have come across to
not articulate a split between spiritual and " the rest". Life IS spirit,
thinking IS spirit, feeling IS spirit and goddam it maybe food production IS
spirit as well!!!!
I look forward to others' musings on these matters!!!
Humusly (and spiritually) Alfred Harris
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Subject: Chaos(formerly Re: American Home acquisition)
Author: <raj@access.mountain.net (Lightstone Foundation)>
Date: 3/09/98 07:12
I think one of the key "discoveries" of chaos theory is that there is an
implicate order underlying what on the surface appear to be random events,
and that this order applies at all orders of magnitude. For agriculture
this is an affirmation of the search for the pre-existing order , the "laws"
of nature, to which all our efforts must conform if they are to succeed, and
also a rediscovery of the ancient dictum "As above, so below", which tells
us that no system exists in isolation, all is connected.
For me personally this aspect of physics confirms my personal belief that
spirit is the dominant aspect of reality, with material phenomena a
derivative or secondary aspect. Sustainable agriculture should be fearless
in emphasizing the spiritual aspects of the movement: it is our values that
enable us to apply meanings to the facts of existence.
Jeff Gold
>Hello Sanet,
>
>On 9-1 Misha wrote:
>> I'll post later on epistemology of science
>>stuff that's burbling around in my sub-basement. Including the New
>>Physics stuff that relates to sustainable ag.
>
>Oh goody! This summer I read James Gleick's CHAOS: Making A New Science,
>which is a very readable account (even for a farmer like me) of what some
>claim is a scientific revolution a la Kuhn in the hardest of sciences
>(physics, math) that exposes and goes beyond the severe limitations of
>the linear reductionist paradigm. I was excited to see how this
>development parallels a similar critique in sustag circles. Some of the
>chaos theorists claim to have discovered a new so-called fractal
>geometry of nature whose similarities across changes in scale mimic
>developmental patterns in everything from cotton prices to clouds to
>blood vessels as they diminish in size toward capillarity, and many other
>scalar repetitions in living organisms.
>
>I was interested to see that the "new science" developed only by breaking
>out of the narrow disciplinary focus characteristic of the old paradigm.
>This seems to parallel a growing conviction in sustag circles that the
>pursuit of sustainability must ultimately address the intimate
>relationship between ecological imperatives,the shape of our farms, the
>nature of rural community, and the constraints of the reigning political
>economy.
>
>But Misha, beyond these obvious parallels is there anything of sustenance
>to sustag in the new physics of fractals?
>
>
>Karl North
>Northland Sheep Dairy
>"Mother Nature never tries to farm without livestock" --Albert Howard
>"Pueblo que canta no morira" --Cuban saying
>
Lightstone Foundation
HC 63 Box 73
Moyers, WV, USA. 26815
304-249-5200 fax 304-249-5310
www.Lightstone.org
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From: raj@access.mountain.net (Lightstone Foundation)
Subject: Chaos(formerly Re: American Home acquisition)
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