>This is no way to make an argument. Going by this one may argue that
>socialism and communism is a better system since crime rates (especially
>against women) were the lowest under the soviet regimes. And look at what
>is happening to Russia after the switchover to capitalism and a return to
This entire thread is not really a subject for discussion on Sanet. But
since it got started and has continued, Maybe we DO need to sort out some
of the chaff here. So, point by point Mr. Parthasarathy:
The USSR crime rate: That is a bit complex. First, under the old USSR,
crime rates were not reported, at least to the public and outside world.
And when they were, they were severely distorted to make the government
look good. Secondly, many "crimes" in the USSR were things we would not
consider criminal. That further distorts the picture.
Third, family violence (as we know it) is not criminal in much of what
made up the USSR. It is not only legal, but promoted. The man is King and
it is his duty to discipline his children and his wife when needed.
Further, children who were "less than perfect" were shuttled off to state
run orphanages to be treated as animals and allowed to die; many of
starvation. Much of this came to light after the breakup of the Soviet
Union, but it had been going on for 70 plus years.
Crime in the old USSR simply did not pay. That is crime against property
and violent crimes resulting out of crimes against property. You couldn't
go down and rob the corner gas station because first, there probably wasn't
a corner gas station, and second, they wouldn't have enough money in the
till to make it worth the effort anyway.
Yes! Unfortunately, now crimes against property are at an all time high.
There is a profit in it and enforcement of the few laws in place is spotty
Communism "worked" in the USSR only as far as the state could push it by
sheer force through state control of everything.
>Maybe you should have a look at countries where religious fundamentalism
>is dominant and look at how they are treating human beings. In India for
>instance crimes against women are the highest and the social status of
>women lowest in states ruled by the Hindu BJP. Rape is a mechanism that is
>frequently used by those acting in the name of god in the pogroms against
>minority muslims and cristians.
Maybe I did not make myself fully clear before. I am not advocating
religion; but the moral code on which the United States laws was founded
(and on which much of the Western World was founded). The failure of
parents and others in positions of responsibility (teachers, clergy, and
even public officials who refuse to prosecute most misdemeanors) to teach
this code and set examples by their actions and policies, is what caused
the current level of violent criminal activity.
In India where you speak of the high rate of crimes against women, it is
their culture, their religion, and their business. At least they are
following the moral code prescribed by their religion and culture.
>Isn't it incongruous this mail coming from Dan following another one from
>him on Monsanto. Everybody on this list knows about Monsanto and what it
>is doing and what it stands for. Maybe Dan thinks Monsanto is not
>capitalist. It is a socialist non-organization trying to feed the world's
Now that is just stupid! Idiotic! Of course Monsanto is a capitalist
company. Yes they are doing a lot of damage to the earth and the people in
it. But I am not going to advocate we change our entire economic structure
simply because one (or even a few) companies make use of it to commit all
sorts of atrocities. Let's all go after Monsanto legally and force them to
change their ways or go out of business. The way to do that is to get the
word out about the harm their products cause and convince others not to buy
If you believe the only document we have that describes the very earliest
times of Man (The Bible) we had the type of utopia advocated by Jane Sooby;
once. And we lost it. If the Garden of Eden ever did exist, I don't think
we can ever return to it without regaining the innocence, the lack of
knowledge of "sin", that existed at that time. And that just ain't a gonna
--Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico--
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