On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Jim Quinton wrote:
> I think I follow most of your thinking, but I am not persuaded that there
> is enough understanding of economics here to go a lot farther. It seems to
> me capitalism may be poorly understood in this forum. It's my observation
> that capitalism “started” a lot longer ago than just in recent centuries
> (mercantile activity around the Mediterranean area back way before Christ
> and that satisfies me as some proof of capitalism).
> Boiled down, capitalism motivates an exchange of value. It is certainly not
> dependent on the existence of monetary exchange or the accumulation of
> liquid resource. It does not require continuous expansion nor is it
> judgmental or subjective as Marx was. He was proven quite wrong again and
> again because he simply failed to comprehend it. He wrongly thought
> coercion is a valid mechanism for exchanging value. For that matter, my
> recent observation is that the tendancy here on Sanet appears to be
> coercive rather than to weigh, consider, and compare although I have only
> been reading these messages for a few weeks.
> Doug Hinds wrote ..."What we may have here is a bit of an assimilation
> ..."the point here - and it's an important point - is the collaborative
> nature of agriculture AND the whole business of being alive. If THAT TOO
> is arguable to you, well it's time to either do some homework, or separate
> the wheat from the chaff".
> I'm sure I have a bit of an assimilation "problem" as an outsider which
> needs to be resolved before I can fully understand responses to my
> thoughts. It's a stimulating challenge. How does sustainability separate
> itself from economics if there is not some mutually satisfying exchange of
> value? Produce something and sell the surplus. That must be a satisfying
> exchange of value -- long-term as well as short-term. Before there can be
> production, there must be the production decision. If the production
> decision is faulty, sustainability cannot follow. Perhaps what we are
> focusing on with some of this discussion is the frustration of not being
> fully comfortable with the climate for making production decisions.
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