Re: No-Till Mania vs Organic

Greg & Lei Gunthorp (hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com)
Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:19:37 -0500

Great post Steve. Keep everybody on track and keep reminding them that
profit has to be there to keep an operation sustainable. A lot of farms
around here have done a decent job on soil conservation but haven't made
enough profit to be able to let the next generation farm. Sustainable
farms have to last more than one generation!
I have one question following down this no-till organic route. Is a
no-till or organic corn/soybean rotation by itself sustainable? And if so,
would it leave very many farmers in the US because of the number of acres
required to support a family?
The only farms around here that I would consider sustainable that plant a
signifigant amount of corn and soybeans incorporate this into a livestock,
cash hay, or vegetable operation. The corn and soybeans are part of the
farm, but the farms definately wouldn't support families without the other
enterprises.
I'd personally like to see some discussion on the SANET on how we get more
farmers to consider sustainable no-till, organic, livestock, hay, or
vegetable operations. I've got a couple of new ideas that I will post
tomorrow. I've got to go grind some feed , move some fences, and get ready
for my daughters birthday party.
Best wishes,
Greg
Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork
LaGrange, Indiana (a stones throw from Ohio & Michigan)
hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com
visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Groff <sgroff@epix.net>
To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu <sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu>
Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: No-Till Mania vs Organic

>Sanet,
>I've been wanting to get into this discussion since the beginning but
>have been irrigating day and night as well as managing 6 employees to
>get the veggies harvested so computer time has dwindled recently.
>
>I no-till for 3 reasons: Increase profits, save soil and reduce
>pesticides. This is done successfully by using cover crops, intensive
>crop rotation, and long-term no-tillage. I can't say enough how cover
>crops are the key to make this system work.
>In the last 10 years on our farm:
>Soil erosion has been cut from 14 tons per acre to almost nothing.
>OM has gone from 2.7% to 4%
>Herbicide use for corn and beans has dropped from $25 bucks/A to$18/A (I
>quit using insecticides on corn unless rescue treatment is necessary.)
>Total pesticide use on tomatoes has dropped from $200/A to $75/A
>Beneficial insects have increased
>Soil aggregate stability in fields tilled recently (less than 10 years)
>is 16% and fields that have not been tilled for over 10 years is 67%
>Water infiltration has increased.
>Soil microbial biomass has tripled.
>Yields have increased 10%
>Total pesticide usage on the whole farm has decreased 50%
>
>If your interested in more info on this, look up our website:
>http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Also, Janet mentioned the video I made
>on "No-till Vegetables". Info for that is on the website.
>
>I know some organic farmers who are no-tilling tomatoes. I think it can
>be done on a small scale.
>
>As Steve Diver mentioned, soil erosion is the most detrimental aspect of
>agriculture. We can't turn our backs on soil erosion and call ourselves
>sustainable! SOIL WAS MEANT TO BE COVERED! No-till has some very
>attractive "sustainable" attributes especially when combined with cover
>crops.
>
>Let's not debate "no-till vs. organic", but rather discuss the positive
>benefits from each system and how they can be integrated with one
>another. This is what sustainable agriculture is all about!
>
>Steve Groff
> --
>"New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable
>agriculture
>http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com
>Steve Groff
>Cedar Meadow Farm
>679 Hilldale Rd
>Holtwood PA 17532 USA
>Ph. 717-284-5152
>
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