> sanet-mg-digest Friday, July 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 417
> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:24:35 -0500
> From: "Wilson, Dale" <WILSONDO@phibred.com>
> Subject: RE: ANECDOTAL INFORMATION
!!! edited shorter -- See original #417 Sanet Digest !!!
.....[> Traditionally, the research/extension community has viewed "anecdotal
> information" as second or third class information because Extension
> built its reputation on "research-based information".
>
The research/extension community feels this way because it is true.
Anecdotal information really is unreliable. What I assume you mean by
anecdotal information is hearsay evidence. Like: "Farmer Joe said his
uncle applied wood ashes to control rootworm."].....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Lion replies: Anecdotal is the historical and universal source of racial
wisdom
commonwealth which has sustained the growth of agiculture for 100 to 160
centuries. The world population is proof irrefutable of its value and worth.
Trusting your own experience gets harder every day, and sheep in the flock
need
reassurance that they are properly conforming to politically correct thinking.
Anecdotal IS NOT HEARSAY -- it is direct personal experience of the person
relaying the anecdote. Misrepresenting the meaning of words adds fuel to the
fire burning up people's trust in personal experience. "Research-based
information" is nothing more or less than a special case of anecdotal data.
Misplaced trust in authority institutions is no better than misplaced trust in
individuals with personal experience.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
> From: "Wilson, Dale" <WILSONDO@phibred.com>
!!! edited shorter -- See original #417 Sanet Digest !!!
....[When slick marketing enters the picture, it gets even worse. There is
no end to the biodynamic/enzymatic/microbial stuff people are trying to
sell. Much of it comes with scientifically reasonable models, but only
with anecdotal information and possibly contrived data. People are
susceptible to being swindled, when they strongly want to believe it
works. Don't get me wrong, some of these things probably do work. But
they need to be tried out by a critical community. There is safety in
numbers. ].....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Lion replies: You have not made any serious attempt to familiarize yourself
with
the high quality of research and decades of record-keeping maintained by some
systems you are here disparging. You have a bias which can be summed up in
the phrase "If I didn't believe it I wouldn't see it".
You are handicapping yourself by your narrow closed mind refusing to learn
from the experience of others who are not interested in swindling you, and you
are spreading infectious memes by propagating your preconceived conclusions
in public.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
> From: "Wilson, Dale" <WILSONDO@phibred.com>
!!! edited shorter -- See original #417 Sanet Digest !!!
.....[> Allopathy = Scientific
> =======================================
> Folk - Unani - Siddha - Ayurveda - Homeopathy = Non-Scientific
>
This pop-philosophy is common in the eco-activist community, but IMO it
is mistaken. Reality is one. We may not know very much about reality,
but the idea that different modes of reality exist to which different
modes of knowledge acquisition apply is dualistic crap.]....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Lion replies: Reality is ONE, and you ought to find out what it really is.
Science
can be a tool of exploration, but it can also be a religion and a superstition
abused by persons who over-filter reality to conform to a preconceived narrow
bias. Biosphere II, the experiment in Arizona which failed spectacularly in
the
most expensive attempt ever in closed-system ecology to exercise absolute
control from a human-centric bias, is proof-positive that "research-based
information" is incomplete.
There is still plenty of room to learn from other "experiments" which are only
available as anecdotal information. Not only do scientists have the right to
describe reality in terms of their choosing, but so do priests, poets,
novelists,
and farmers.
The problem is not that these others have nothing to say about reality, but
that
one group usurps authority to be the only ones allowed to speak. If someone
has knowledge you might desire, but speaks only spanish it behooves you to
learn spanish to learn what you want, so also if someone speaks only "farmer"
or "biodynamic" or "microbial crap".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
> From: "Wilson, Dale" <WILSONDO@phibred.com>
!!! edited shorter -- See original #417 Sanet Digest !!!
.....[I believe there is a strong parallel between the unreliability of the
primary scientific literature (journal articles) and anecdotal
information in the sustainable ag community. The crucial next step is
evaluation and critique of the primary information by a critical
community. There are examples of how this process works well in the ag
science community. Can these same institutions work for the sustainable
ag community? I would like to see integration of the communities, and
increased relevance of the ag science community.
Dale]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Lion replies: Some people believe when shown once, others believe when
shown and repeated dozens of times. Reality is indifferent to your belief.
Reality is here whether or not you are, and will still be here when you are
gone.
You are stipulating multiple abundant hurdles to convince yourself that there
is
"safety" in numbers, when there is no safety at all. Me, you, congress, USDA,
and everybody who lives is subject to filtering out aspects of reality and
living in
a straightjacket of self-deception and group-self-deception. Good luck
building
your cozy cocoon, but it is obviously not big enough for all of us to fit in
there.
As Niels Bohr advised: when experiment contradicts theory, trust the results
of the experiment and throw out the theory. If the proof of the pudding is in
the eating, then the proof of alternate anecdotal agriculture is also in the
eating. Taste it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with "unsubscribe sanet-mg".
To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
"subscribe sanet-mg-digest".