Re: Dennis Avery Article on Confinement Hogs

Greg and Lei Gunthorp (hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com)
Sun, 28 Dec 97 17:32:53 PST

I'll send some financial information over the Sanet if thats ok with the group.
Anybody know where I can find out the average hog price for the last ten years?
I've got a pretty good idea, but I don't want to skew the data.
I would argue with most numbers from other sources. Normally productivity of the sows
is too low for the amount of feed BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTSIDE OPERATIONS NOT
PASTURE OPERATIONS! Pigs have to be on pasture not bare dirt to make money outside.
Otherwise its a toss up between spending extra feed or spending extra on buildings.
Pasture hog operations have to contain a controled grazing component, especially to control sow
feed costs and protein costs for market hogs. Did your sources contain those?
My operation lowers feed costs and building costs compared to a confinement operation.
How can my return on investment be lower? My margins are significantly higher and my investment is
significantly lower. I was at an alternative swine conference and saw Jim VanDerPol show figures of
over 30% with pasture farrowing and hoop house finishing. I've honestly never figured mine but I will guess
it to be in Jim's ball park. I do know where my cost of production is and I know that virtually my whole
investment to raise hogs will outlast confinement investment by at least twice as long. I still have
market hog coops that my grandpa built in the early 1950's. How do you even put a cost per pig on something
with a lifespan of 50 years? Of course any repairs to it are in my cost of production. I expect my high tensile fences
to last 25-40 years.
My cost of production is below $30. How does that compare with your other sources?
Ask the seasonal dairies where the "other sources" are for accurate financial information. I think what all this
goes to prove is that the universities have for so long justified the confinement industry that they have lost
track of where the low cost pasture operations are headed. And don't get me wrong. Its starting to change. But
my land grant university is still passing out pasture hog information from the late 1960's! Ask my dad, He will tell you
it was at least 20 years out dated when it was published!
Thanks for the reply. We in the sustainable agriculture movement have our work cut out to get the word out about
true low cost systems.

------
> while i'm not a fan of confinement hog operations (or of dennis avery),
> i'm curious about the claim in greg gunthorp's communication (below) . .
> . as i understand greg's message, the return on investment for hogs on
> pasture would be 36 percent per year; this strikes me as considerably
> higher than figures i see in other sources . . . i'm curious if greg or
> anyone else has any figures that would support that expectation . . .
> perhaps some explanation of how return and investment are being measured
> would help clarify the discussion
> cheers,
> craig
>
> craig k harris
> dept of sociology
> michigan state university
> east lansing michigan 48824-1111
> u.s.a.
> t: 517-355-5048
> f: 517-432-2856
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: Greg and Lei Gunthorp
> > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 12:59 PM
> > To: sanet
> > Subject: Dennis Avery Article on Confinement Hogs
> >
> > Whoa! Did Dennis Avery ever make some sweeping generalazations
> > about confinement
> > and pasture hog producers.
> > It all comes down to his last paragraph. He states Iowa confinement
> > swine farms project
> > 18% returns on investment(12% if they have no use for the manure).
> > Why didn't he find out
> > a return on investment figure for pasture operations? It would have
> > ruined his whole article.
> > Pasture hog operations will at least double those confinement figures!
> > They also don't smell.
> > They don't pollute the environment if they are pasture
> > operations(grass or legumes not bare
> > dirt). He made a lot of statements describing outside operations.
> > (Ones on bare dirt that never
> > rotate pastures.)
> > And pasture operations give economic power to independant farmers.
> > Isn't that the true problem with low input farming? If managed
> > properly it can be too profitable for agriculture? We apparently
> > don't want farmers to make a decent living. We also apparantly don't
> > want farming systems that
> > have long term sustainability. My family will continue to raise pigs
> > on pasture for at least another
> > 50 years if we have a market.(And still basically the same size as
> > when it started!) Tell me a
> > confinement operation that can say that.
> > Best wishes,
> > Greg Gunthorp
> > hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com
> >
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with "unsubscribe
> > sanet-mg".
> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest".
> >
>

To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with "unsubscribe sanet-mg".
To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
"subscribe sanet-mg-digest".