Re: SMALLFARM-MG> Organic Produce
Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:15:41 -0700
On September 18 an environmental group held a press conference and issued a
report entitled Rising Toxic Tide. the report claimed that 1. California
uses 25 percent of all U.S. pesticides 2. pesticide use in California is
increasing and 3. that the application of cancer causing pesticides rose
129 percent form 1991 to 1995. And what does the state of Ca. do ? They
tax and burden organic producers . Put a tax on all that sell organic is
not my idea of reducing pesticides. Now the USDA wants to lay an
additional tax on the organic farmers . Any one selling over $5000 in
crops will have to pay large sums of money to sell organic and jump through
even more hoops. This low number$5000 in this day and age is nuts. Many
small organic growers will be burdened with such a tax and may lose their
life of living and be forced out.
>> At 02:21 PM 9/23/97 -0400, Clarence W. Walker wrote:
>> >Then based upon this reasoning is it to follow that "organic "growers
>> >should not quadruple their prices to that which the market will bear and
>> >then transport their wares into an organic market that just happens to
>> >be in an area of cities wherein the affluent enjoy the privilege of
>> >being able to purchase ...and afford...that which uses "organic" as a
>> >vehicle to justify high costs?
>> Oh ;now you want to regulate the price I get for my crop.
>> I sure do not get those prices you are talking about. Is there some kind of
>> guarantee I have not seen that says we should get quadruple prices . Who
>> is giving organic farmers that garentee? Where do I sign up at. . all
>> kidding aside I have many time taken less than commercial farmers because
>> the organic market was full up of what I was selling. I never get
>> quadruple or even double and a most of the time less. . where do I sign up
>> at.for that quadruple price? That price BS is part of the wickedness they
>> use to justify their high tax on organic growing. they say we charge more
>> so they can put an extra tax on us to grow and sell organic . They need
>> something like"we are ripping off the public " to justify taxing us for
>> telling the truth. I just tell folks how I farm and they put the value on
>> what I am selling . No one guarantees me a price every year I worry if
>> the competition this year will kill me out all together and I don't need
>> an extra tax to add to that. I should not pay one more cent that any other
>> grower has to pay just because I grow organic.
>> Should "organic" trade shows profit by
>> >the inclusion of those who can afford booth space whether displaying
>> >organic wares or not.
>> I never could afford to be in or even go to a trade shows so can't tell you
>> what is going on there.
>> Should "organic" be allowed to imply "of greater
>> >quality" whether or not each item so marketed is tested to verify the
>> People should be free to chose organic and to some folks it does mean a
>> greater quality .I know to me it does so what does that mean .
>> how can you test every item who wants to eat a item that has just been
>> tested : >
>> they can test a item and see if it contains less than 5% of chemicals that
>> a non organic farmer can have. that seem like a fair test after the water
>> and air have been polluted by USDA approver pesticides,herbicides and other
>> poisons. I would say 5% of what non organic farmers see on a test is a
>> fair test now but if things keep going the way they are with the USDA
>> releasing more and more non organic and non controllable things on the
>> earth there may be no place on earth where one can be at %5 mark. .We
>> have been subsidizing chemical farmers for year cleaning up our air water
>> and soil from the USDA's approved poisons that commercial farmer are using.
>> And anytime you have the money you can test my crop . Just do not force
>> me to pay for the test because I know I am organic so if you want to test
>> buy some of my fruit and test it to your hearts content.
>> Why should "organic" or any other farmers or business activities
>> >be so subsidized at the taxpayers expense and frequent abuse?
>> If the tax payers demand tests they should pay for them . If the USDA
>> demand test they should pay for them. Me I don't need no stinking test to
>> tell how I farm. I know I am organic by any definition I have read so far.
>> Let those that doubt pay for the test. As far as frequent abuse I don't
>> see it. The State of Ca. has taken Hundreds of thousands of dollars from
>> organic growers and have found little abuse. the only abuse I know of is
>> the abuse we organic growers are receiving.
>> Fraud is fraud . No one is subsidizing organic growers at least no one has
>> giving me one darn cent I did not earn. but they should they would save
>> money not having to take the herbicides out of the drinking water but alas
>> it is the commercial farmer that gets most all the supsidzing,research
>> grants etc. and no one is asking for subsidizing I am only asking the Gov.
>> not to lay an extra tax on my for growing and selling orgnaic. Why is it
>> far to lay an extra tax me because I grow and sell organic .
>> >a marketing tool, a government means of intervention, dicrimination
>> >against those who do not so believe? If one chooses to produce
>> >organically, fine and laudable....but at the costs tangible and
>> >intangible, direct and indirect but not as another boondoggle or pork
>> >barrel and certainly not as a marketing ploy to rip off the very poor
>> >that most organic producers are so quick to bewail!
>> I do discriminant I will say I always pick the organic food over the
>> commercial . thank God I am free to chose. I am not ripping anyone off as a
>> organic grower and don't want to get ripped off by having the to be tax
>> more than any other farmer. We are not talking about subsidizing we are
>> talking about not taxing the poor farmer that want to farm and sell
>> organic. you want to talk about subsidizing the farmer we can start a new
>> topic I would love to get into that with you. We can start with the
>> drinking water that the city can not clean up and that the people have to
>> drink and bath in. hummm then their is the cost of spraying insecticide on
>> miles and miles of land,homes,people,etc to protect the farmer from an
>> insect. and on and on and on and on. . Lets get it on. the argument
>> is that organic growers and sellers should not get taxed extra for selling
>> organic because they have not done anything wrong to justify having to pay
>> more than any other farmer . Now I ask you ,do you think that a farm
>> that only has $35000 in sells is a small farm or not? What does the
>> average farm in the US sell in produce and is $35000 in sells small or not?
>> Anyone got any numbers.? I don't have any numbers but I am willing to bet
>> that that farm would be clasified as a real small farm in the US and that
>> farmer is not having an easy time of it organic or not. And that farmer
>> does not need an extra tax put on him because of other folks perinoia.
>> >> Lawrence
>> >> thank you for bring me back to earth. You are right as usual .
>> >> oppression of the poor makes me mad and I don't want to see even one
>> >> organic farmers hurt because he sell organic.
>> >> lets look at the NOSB
>> >> B. SMALL FARMER EXEMPTION
>> >> It can be found at
>> >> http://www.cfarm.com/nosb/OrganicCrop/4farmer.htm
>> >> I think in this day and age where the gov. has raised the mim. wage
>> >> that the fact that a . small farm is considered only $5000 is way to
>> >> an amount. CCOF this year raised their min. to $20,000 (still a
>> >> small in this day of high property tax and water bills ) a step in the
>> >> right direction. I think your number is more reasonable. If the Gov
>> >> does not want to burden and drive the poorer organic farmers out of
>> >> business as Organic growers we should agree that under $35000 should
>> >> small farm and not charged for growing and selling organic. If you
>> >> the small farmer exemption this does not mean we do not have to
>> >> law it only show that the Gov. understands that life is not easy and
>> >> have to have money to live . the small farmer will still have to
>> >> .Declaration form and sign it and will have to develop an Organic Farm
>> >> and/or Handling Plan,in accordance with the requirements of the OFPA.
>> >> will still have to do record-keeping adequate to trace an organic
>> >> from production site through to sale for consumption. and Records
>> >> kept for five years.And they must allow The provisions of public
>> >> the above documents. So the poorer of us can still follow the USDA
>> >> and not be burden for doing the good he knows.
>> >> Thank you for your voice of reason.
>> >> If this figure were raised to $35000 (small farmer) it would protect the
>> >> poor man and his family that still want to raise and sell organic
>> >> satisfy the people that are buying organic food.
>> >> At 05:32 PM 9/20/97 -0400, Lawrence F. London, Jr.
>> >> >
>> >> >On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, sal wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >Certification should be either less expensive and less time
>> >> >the grower or the small grower exemption should be no less than $35,000
>> >> >gross annual income. This will _keep_ small organic (natural)
>> >> >business and on the landscape. The NOSB should seriously consider
>> >> >the exemption for the smallest growers. After all, one person, growing
>> >> >using manual labor only, can only do so much and make only so much
>> >> >The current cost of certification is way too expensive.
>> >> >
>> >> >LL wrote:
>> >> >>> I think I'll label my produce Naturally Grown (w/o synthetic
>> >> >>> and fertilizers).
>> >> >
>I am sure that you have a heart of gold, but are your practices and
>outlooks true of all.....? While being supportive of responsible organic
>practices based upon the desires of an individual of their own
>preferences are one thing..and commendable to a limit, but not
>universally quite so pure as you would have us believe or always
>inherently superiour. Personally, I would match the safety of
>agrisynergistic methodologies and natural pest/disease management with
>organic results with confidence. But, if I could get considerably more
>for organic apples would I not charge accordingly since I raise them
>chemical free anyway?
Natural pest /disease management is part of being organic also.
>Atlanta International Communications,Inc./Sales Reps. & Consulting Svcs.
>See our web site! Updated 07-14-97 http://www.mindspring.com/~atlintlcom
>Indust., Commercial, Muni., and Agri. Waste Processing Systems & Eqpt.
>7500 Spalding Lane, Atlanta, Georgia 30350
>phone 770-392-1313 fax 770 392-0078 email: email@example.com
>New equipment lines, systems, and project inquiries always considered.